Bolex H16 or Filmo?

[Lunar07]

jess,

how do you frame your image at really long distances like 300mm w/non-reflex filmos and bolexs that don't have viewfinder objectives or settings for anything that long?

i'd like to play with my nikon zooms too, but i'm waiting until i put the turret-strengthening plate on my R16 so i can see what i'm looking at. and even with the plate, i'm not sure i want a heavy tamron zoom hanging off my camera. 8O

Create an external mask that goes over the view finder and use it at the setting of 150mm.

[Evan Kubota]

Sorry to dredge this one up... I finally finished shooting my first 16mm project. 400' of Plus-X, all shot on my H16. It should be back from the lab next week - will post frame grabs, etc. It was a pleasure using the H16, even without reflex viewing. A very practical, durable camera that worked as it was supposed to. However, I just bought a 70DA body this morning on eBay. If it works, I might use that for some of my next project, which will involve a lot of handheld stuff.

How do you do critical focusing on a Filmo?

[film_idaho]

8O How do you focus with a non-reflex camera?! Sorry for the dumb question.

For example I am planning on buying a B&H Eyemo and that’s a non-reflex camera so how do you focus!?

-Alex Mason

[BigBeaner]

You measure FROM THE FILM PLANE (not the lens, the film plane were the film meets the gate) to the subject. Some film cameras have a O with a line through them and that tells you where the film plane is, hence where you measure from. My Victor Cine cam doesn't have one, so I just marked the outside were about it falls.

Or you could just guess how far away the subject is from the film plane. It sounds ridiculous especially if you grew up on video with auto focus but my 16mm non reflex test came and I was quite surprised with how well you can do.

[Herb Montes]

If you can't use a tape measure you can use an optical rangefinder like a golf scope.

Some Filmos and non-reflex Bolexes have a focus finder that allows you to focus the lens when it is rotated out of the taking position. According to the Eyemo manual I have on the turret models of the Eyemo there is a focusing finder on the side of the camera opposite of the main viewfinder. Not sure if single lens models have them.

[Evan Kubota]

I use a non-reflex Bolex so I definitely know how to use a tape measure or eye-level viewer I took a look at some sites and apparently the camera I bought has a small focusing glass on the right side - looks like it only takes a small area of the image from the lens in the right-hand position (9 o'clock or so on the turret) and diverts it to the side. Weird looking setup.

The small lens for that piece is definitely viewable through the open lens mount on the auction photo... assuming this camera works, I'll attempt to convert it to single perf. Any tips? I read that some Filmos have double claws, and others have single claws but double-toothed sprockets. This is a DA, but apparently parts were frequently switched, so serial number or model name is not an absolute indicator.

[audadvnc]

How do you do critical focusing on a Filmo?

Tape measure is best, but all Filmos from later 70DA on have a critical focussing sight on the righthand side of the camera frame; you have to swing the lens in question out of the gate position and rotate it 180 degrees to the critical focusser. Note: I have seen some Filmos where the critical focus device was out of alignment and therefore useless. Verify by setting your lens focus to infinity and look at the horizon to verify proper alignment. Note: Eyemo cameras do not have a critical focus device.

[Evan Kubota]

The camera came in today. Surprisingly, mechanically in very good shape and runs pretty well (although noisy).

The critical focuser does appear to be out of alignment - it appears to be focused when the lens is set for 2' or so when pointed at something about 1' away, and it doesn't reach full sharpness when set to infinity.

How can I recalibrate this? There's also no diopter adjustment, so I'm not sure how that would work, considering that the appearance of focus could vary depending on the user's eyesight...

I had the camera apart earlier to convert it to single perf. Came apart easily, except I managed to lose a washer from the turret detent - they fly off when the turret is removed, unlike a Bolex.

The other issue I had is that sometimes running the camera until the spring is fully wound down, the shutter doesn't end in the "start" position. This is the position where the lever for the release is in the milled cutout on the shutter assembly. As a result, pushing the button after rewinding does nothing. I had to manually move the shutter around until it engaged the release and I could run the camera.

I don't remember if it did this before I modified the camera. Any idea what kind of mechanism is used to return the shutter to the "start" position, and what's supposed to happen if it ends off of that point?

[audadvnc]

Too bad about the sproingy springloaded washer; they pop right out, just like you said. Look around, it's not too tiny to find.

A filmo wind lasts about 35 seconds, then it idles to a stop, normal for this camera. You may wind up with a fogged frame or 2, it's no big deal.

I've owned 4 Filmos and a couple Eyemos, they all sound different. At least 2 of them made terrible screeching sounds due to lack of lubrication on the shutter cam slide. You'll need to pull the front off the camera including the shutter mechanism to work on it (watch those sproingy things so they don't get away this time - also the trigger is springloaded and will pop out on you when you pull the front, so be ready to catch it). Use a dab of grease on the shutter cam slide and regular sewing machine oil on the axle pivot and it should quiet right down. There are some service manuals floating around the internet, so keep an eye out for one (filmos and eyemos are very similar; Clive Tobin has an eyemo service manual on his site).

Adjusting the critical focus device: I've not had much luck with that, but I believe that focus adjust is accomplished by loosening the support bracket on the cylindrical device and sliding it in or out to fit. But that may not be right; it may be an internal adjustment that requires disassembling the device (I've done that to clean the prism) and adjusting the prism-to-frosted glass distance, which I haven't figured out.

Filmos are great!

[Evan Kubota]

I have the Eyemo service manual PDF from intervalometers.com. It was fairly helpful in looking at the mechanics of the shutter assembly, but the design was simple enough to figure out on my own.

A full wind at 24 fps went for slightly less than 40 seconds, so this spring appears to be pretty strong. It's a loud camera, but appears to be well-lubricated. Is the shutter cam really the source of most of the noise? I wound it and ran it without the front assembly (so the motor was just running by itself) and it did seem fairly quiet.

I'll take it down again today and oil it. Is 3-1 machine oil OK, or sewing machine oil is critical? What about the built-in oiling point on the turret hub? Not going to cut it?

The critical focus device looks like a tiny cylinder... I probably wouldn't want to disassemble it. I may try adjusting the position, but that only looks like it would change what part of the imaged area it displays. The holding screws are also shellaced in place - looks like a factory job that hasn't been touched in 60 years. I wonder why it's off.

Is it normal for the camera to not run after the spring is run down and rewound? Like I said, my shutter is not consistently returning to the same position. Maybe some lubrication will fix the problem.

[audadvnc]

Filmo mechanisms are so rough-and-ready, I bet you could use gun cleaner or brake fluid on it and it would work. But I use a light machine oil (3 in 1 should be fine) for the oil points. From my experience the shutter assembly is the noisiest part of a Filmo, that's just the design. I've heard a reason that Mitchell cameras came to be preferred in Hollywood over the B&H 2709 was that the B&H camera shutters couldn't be redesigned to be quieter (though I don't know if the 2709 used a similar shutter mechanism to the Filmo/Eyemo).

As you said, the critical focus mechanism is shellac'ed in place, but these cameras have been around the block several times over, and most mine have scratch marks on the focus device cylindrical housing, so it's possible yours may have also been dropped and scraped, knocking it out of alignment. If you've got the front off to lube the shutter anyway, why not give readjustment a try?

As far as the shutter not returning to its stop, all my B&H cameras will stop on any random spot when the camera completes its unwind. But if I rewind using either the winding crank or the handcrank the shutter should immediately advance to the stop position. Perhaps the trigger is hanging up on the shutter cam mechanism?

[Evan Kubota]

I'm not sure what was up with it. I loosened the four screws for the front plate, tightened them again, and now it starts fine. The housing for the focuser on mine looks untouched, but I'll try to get it set up correctly.

[Dangerpays]

Has anybody had any experience with the Eumig C16??

Hey Everyone,

1st post here. I recently acquired a beautiful Eumig C16. I tested it and everything seem to be fine. I went out on location for a film test and I realized that the camera would stop running. I can wind it just fine, but as soon as I release the arm, it simply starts running and cannot be stopped until the wind runs out. I have tried pushing the run button at the bottom of the camera in and out, but it has no effect whatsoever. Also, I have the camera set to lock and it still runs. Any ideas on this issue or has anyone else encounter it or something similar?

Thanks!