external lightmeter...worth it?
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
-
alfredbot9000
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:00 pm
- Location: Michigan, USA
- Contact:
external lightmeter...worth it?
i know that every super 8 camera has an internal lightmeter, so what would be the use of getting an external lightmeter? i have been looking at the sekonic cine lightmeters models L-508 and L-608 what would these light meters do that makes them more valuable than the internal lightmeter? are external light meters really worth it?
-
focusgroup
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:01 pm
- Contact:
absolutely they are worth it. Its the same as an ambient meter for still photos. I really dont think you need a cine meter. I use my sekonic L-358 which allows for motion picture fps's. The internal light meter is a spot meter which can easily be fooled depending on reflectivity, back lighting etc.
I never shoot in automatic with my B 4008 ZMII as it is always changing aperature etc. Fully manual is the way to go.
I never shoot in automatic with my B 4008 ZMII as it is always changing aperature etc. Fully manual is the way to go.
Hello. Regarding the 4008:
You likely know it, but in case: You can still use the 4008’s internal system to meter a scene before you shoot it. Then when you’re ready to shoot, to prevent pulsing, switch exposure control to “Manuelâ€Â. There’s a tip on the back page of the instruction manual, but I find it applies to more speeds than “2 fps†(there’s also a note on Manuel inside the manual for “speeds slower than 8â€Â).
You likely know it, but in case: You can still use the 4008’s internal system to meter a scene before you shoot it. Then when you’re ready to shoot, to prevent pulsing, switch exposure control to “Manuelâ€Â. There’s a tip on the back page of the instruction manual, but I find it applies to more speeds than “2 fps†(there’s also a note on Manuel inside the manual for “speeds slower than 8â€Â).
I think an external light meter is a great help. Many built-in lightmeters were never that great to begin with then you should take into account that some of them are decades old and haven't been calibrated since the camera left the factory.
I use a Gossen Luna Pro digital which has some nice features but as long as you know your cameras shutter speed you don't need any 'cine scale'.
Factor in light lost to the reflex viewing system. If the camera has a mirror shutter (most Beaulieus) there is zero light loss but a fraction of an f-stop may be lost when using a big zoom lens.
A couple of days ago I viewed the first test roll of film I shot with a Canon 814 Electronic in auto exposure mode. The lightmeter did a decent job but most of the scenes were a bit too bright for my liking (maybe 1/2 an f-stop over?) with many of the highlights completely white. I just shot another test roll with a mixture of auto-exposed scenes and manually exposed scenes (using my handheld meter). I know that the Canon has as shutter speed of ~1/60 secs @ 24fps so I decided to set my meter to 1/90 secs ( factor in light lost to reflex prism and zoom lens). The handheld lightmeter typically gave me readings about 0.5 f-stop darker than the built-in meter so I think I got it right. I'll find out when film gets back.
Built-in lightmeters are OK with me as long as they give consistent results.
A lot of cameras will consistently over-expose footage in auto mode so you can compensate by taking a reading in auto-mode, switching to manual and closing the iris down an extra 0.5 f-stop or so. You may wish to open up the iris using the same technique in situations where auto mode gives you underexposed footage (backlit scenes, snow, etc.)
Take advantage of TTL (through-the-lens) metering by zooming in on the area of a scene you want to expose correctly reading the lightmeter value and then setting the iris manually.
So far, the best built-in meter I have used is the one in my Beaulieu 6008s. It is center weighted and has produced solid exposures. I am not a fan of the 4008 series meter! I love the viewfinder but there is just too much room for variation (needle positioned in the 'notch') and the needle is always bobbing up and down.
------
Yemi
I use a Gossen Luna Pro digital which has some nice features but as long as you know your cameras shutter speed you don't need any 'cine scale'.
Factor in light lost to the reflex viewing system. If the camera has a mirror shutter (most Beaulieus) there is zero light loss but a fraction of an f-stop may be lost when using a big zoom lens.
A couple of days ago I viewed the first test roll of film I shot with a Canon 814 Electronic in auto exposure mode. The lightmeter did a decent job but most of the scenes were a bit too bright for my liking (maybe 1/2 an f-stop over?) with many of the highlights completely white. I just shot another test roll with a mixture of auto-exposed scenes and manually exposed scenes (using my handheld meter). I know that the Canon has as shutter speed of ~1/60 secs @ 24fps so I decided to set my meter to 1/90 secs ( factor in light lost to reflex prism and zoom lens). The handheld lightmeter typically gave me readings about 0.5 f-stop darker than the built-in meter so I think I got it right. I'll find out when film gets back.
Built-in lightmeters are OK with me as long as they give consistent results.
A lot of cameras will consistently over-expose footage in auto mode so you can compensate by taking a reading in auto-mode, switching to manual and closing the iris down an extra 0.5 f-stop or so. You may wish to open up the iris using the same technique in situations where auto mode gives you underexposed footage (backlit scenes, snow, etc.)
Take advantage of TTL (through-the-lens) metering by zooming in on the area of a scene you want to expose correctly reading the lightmeter value and then setting the iris manually.
So far, the best built-in meter I have used is the one in my Beaulieu 6008s. It is center weighted and has produced solid exposures. I am not a fan of the 4008 series meter! I love the viewfinder but there is just too much room for variation (needle positioned in the 'notch') and the needle is always bobbing up and down.
------
Yemi
Using an external lightmeter in useful, especially if it's a spotmeter, with which you can measure reflected light with a very narrow angle (for example 1°)
Recently I've had the chance to use a Sekonic L 608 lightmeter and I'd really love to have one, because it's simply great.
I suppose it differs from the 508 in the possibility to read apertures and shutter speeds also into the in-built viewfinder.
And maybe in the possibility to set the shutter speed even if you use it in cine mode.
Or can you do this also with the 508, Nigel?
Giovanni
Recently I've had the chance to use a Sekonic L 608 lightmeter and I'd really love to have one, because it's simply great.
I suppose it differs from the 508 in the possibility to read apertures and shutter speeds also into the in-built viewfinder.
And maybe in the possibility to set the shutter speed even if you use it in cine mode.
Or can you do this also with the 508, Nigel?
Giovanni
-
Dave Hardy
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 7:08 am
- Contact:
With a built in light meter you can get the corrrect exposure. This is fine for news or most documentary footage.
The external light meter give you the additional possibility of lighting the scene. If exposure control & lighting mean the same thing to you then you owe it to yourself to do some reading on the subject.
Dave
The external light meter give you the additional possibility of lighting the scene. If exposure control & lighting mean the same thing to you then you owe it to yourself to do some reading on the subject.
Dave
Hmmmm, shutter speed reading in the view finder - kind of an overkill. I have to say that I use the Sekonic 358 as a flash meter and incident/reflected light meter. For a spot meter with an aperture reading in the view finder I use the Pentax spot meter.Nigel wrote:No, the 508 does not have the readings in the viewfinder. Which is exactly why I wish I would have known about the 608's introduction when I bought mine. I would have waited.
Good Luck
PS--The air is really thin up here on this pedestal
-
bakanosaru
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 9:23 am
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand
- Contact:
-
christoph
- Senior member
- Posts: 2486
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:36 pm
- Location: atm Berlin, Germany
- Contact:
i disagree with the common understanding that a external light meter is absolutely essential.
there, i said it!
it must also be said that i have two light meters myself (a spectra pro IV-A and a pentax spotmeter) - and that i'm using them a lot, specially when shooting 16mm, and sometimes even when i do video stuff.
*but*, they are no way necessary if you know how to use the built in meter, ie. if you zoom in on the medium bright bits and lock the exposure. i've been doing this for years and had perfect results most of the time. actually sometimes i'm surprised that i manage to get more consistant results using the bilt in meter than the very sophicated external ones (and yes, i know how to use them, or at least i think i do)
that doesnt mean that you can just set the bult in meter to automatic exposure and shoot away, but one shouldnt be afraid to use it.
++ christoph ++
there, i said it!
it must also be said that i have two light meters myself (a spectra pro IV-A and a pentax spotmeter) - and that i'm using them a lot, specially when shooting 16mm, and sometimes even when i do video stuff.
*but*, they are no way necessary if you know how to use the built in meter, ie. if you zoom in on the medium bright bits and lock the exposure. i've been doing this for years and had perfect results most of the time. actually sometimes i'm surprised that i manage to get more consistant results using the bilt in meter than the very sophicated external ones (and yes, i know how to use them, or at least i think i do)
that doesnt mean that you can just set the bult in meter to automatic exposure and shoot away, but one shouldnt be afraid to use it.
++ christoph ++
I recently won a Gossen Luna Pro on ebay. I have since used it with my SLR for night timed exposure shots and also decided to use it for my latest 16mm short. Even though my Scoopic seems to have a very accurate meter, I figured I'd use the Gossen to get correct exposure on the characters faces with a brighter background while filming in partially shaded woods. I have since viewed the 16mm negative- 7222, and it seems to give a good degree of detail in the shadows.
Simon.
Simon.