c-mount macro lens for Telecine choices

[RCBasher]

But I got my first TIS in 2004 and my second one in 2007. Before you guys did all the testings If I would have to do it all over again, I would follow yours and Christophs advice, if not to expensive.

You pioneered the way Fred, I just followed and try to improve. Machine Vision cameras have dropped a lot in price even since I started with this (the Guppy was expensive by todays prices...still is at the top of the price range).
Given what we are trying to get out of film, I think the in camera gamma before reduction to 8 bit is essential...or at least access to the full A/D output so one can tweak in post. As you have noted, dark details are significantly better on the IMI...but is it worth the price difference? Hard to answer that question!

Frank

[RCBasher]

... when you do have too much money, you should go for a "ORYTEC TL-1001 - 8mm TV Conversion Lens":
http://wittner-cinetec.com/aktuell/sons ... e=so_video

I suspect it will be rubbish on a high resolution (compared with PAL/NTSC TV) machine vision camera.

[christoph]

... when you do have too much money, you should go for a "ORYTEC TL-1001 - 8mm TV Conversion Lens":
http://wittner-cinetec.com/aktuell/sons ... e=so_video

I suspect it will be rubbish on a high resolution (compared with PAL/NTSC TV) machine vision camera.

yeah, at best, it will perform on par with a companon-s, and at worst it will be much softer (more likely). given the price, definitely a no go in my opinion.

Given what we are trying to get out of film, I think the in camera gamma before reduction to 8 bit is essential...or at least access to the full A/D output so one can tweak in post.

the funny bit is that the only reason 8bit linear works at all is the grainy structure of super8. otherwise we'd see significant banding in the dark areas. it's surprising that fred got such good results out of it, really... careful setting of exposure and white balance is essential here though.

with dual-exposures, one could get very good results even with a 8bit linear output (like have the second exposure 3 stops higher).. in fact they would probably be better then 12bit on a single exposure.
but then again, most TIS camera only support simple trigger modes which makes HDR capturing pretty tricky (one would have to write advanced software, if even possible).

so in summary, the TIS is good value for those mainly interested in a decent transfer for TV. for those who try to get the maximum out of the films, it probably won't do.
on the other hand, using a cheap camera and having a proper workflow and a good eye and enough time for color correcting results in better transfers then a really expensive camera and doing the thing in a rush.
++ c.

[RCBasher]

the funny bit is that the only reason 8bit linear works at all is the grainy structure of super8. otherwise we'd see significant banding in the dark areas. it's surprising that fred got such good results out of it, really... careful setting of exposure and white balance is essential here though.

with dual-exposures, one could get very good results even with a 8bit linear output (like have the second exposure 3 stops higher).. in fact they would probably be better then 12bit on a single exposure.

A couple of weeks back I transferred a film from my wife's childhood. There were two very dark, high contrast scenes where I max'ed out the in-camera gamma (=2.5) and managed to pull out the main subjects from the blackness without blowing out the whites.
Being pleased with this and thinking my wife might not have seen the images before, I loaded up the film in a normal projector to take a look. I was rather disappointed to see how well they could be seen...dual exposure definately required in this case....will have to try it!

Frank

[Roving6]

Unfortunately, the TIS camera is at the top of my potential price bracket... I'm assuming the Point Grey would be even more expensive. Machine vision cameras with firewire outputs and triggers don't seem to turn up second hand too often either....

Having seen some "professional" transfers my parents had done and comparing the results to the superior ones I got using a <$300 camcorder (frame by frame -w- CaptureMate) I think (hope!) that the TIS camera will be good enough for my purposes. The total cost of my rig should be comparable what it would have cost to have even a low-grade "pro" transfer done.

Nathan

[VideoFred]

I think (hope!) that the TIS camera will be good enough for my purposes.

It will be OK. Feel free to contact me if you should have any questions about it, Nathan!

Fred.

[Roving6]

Thanks for the offer, Fred. I know analog electronics well, but Windows computers, machine vision cameras, optics etc. are uncharted territory for me. Off to start a new thread about backlights!

Nathan

[rlorenz2]

For the componon-s 50mm mounted forward using a 1/3" ccd camera what length of extension tubes are you using?

[RCBasher]

For the componon-s 50mm mounted forward using a 1/3" ccd camera what length of extension tubes are you using?

Depends...R8 or S8, widened gate?

I just remounted my Guppy and made some measurements for you. With this full field of view on S8:

then the distance from the film plane to the front filter edge of the lens is about 87mm and from the thread seat on the rear of the lens to the CCD plane is about 82mm. The distance from the filter front to the rear thread seat on the Componon is about 30mm, so we have a total distance of film plane to CCD plane of 199mm with the lens roughly in the middle.

Frank

PS In case anyone is messing about with other focal length lenses, for the same setup as above but with a Rodagon 75mm lens, the distances are about 132mm, 122mm, 34mm and 289mm respectively....rather long!

[Roving6]

That's time saving information, Frank. I bought two sets of extension tubes and thought I'd find the proper distance via experimentation. I finally received my M39>M42 adaptor from Hong Kong (under $6 with free shipping to the USA- I know it's just a tiny bit of threaded aluminum, but how do they turn a profit??) I'm almost ready to pull the trigger and order the camera. Rambling aside, thanks for your efforts to document your setup. The revised info on your backlight system you added to your site will be helpful as well!

Nathan