Hello all,
I need your opinion on this, it seems to me that most of the DPs working today have been to film school, what do you think about it? is film school really necessary to be a professional cinematographer? I know some of you are film students and some of you might have worked with or have friends in the film industry so please give me your opinions
Thanks
ashesoftime
Is Film School necessary to become a cinematographer?
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Ashesoftime
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Or maybe I am just being naive.
There was an article some time ago in a British newspaper on this topic. It seems that in the trade the qualifications are not really worth it. By all means get educated and acquire a qualification, but it will probably be of more use if it is in Chinese than Media Studies.
Evidently the route in is to get working on a film making set. Offering ones services for free, being keen, making the tea (essential in the UK, if you cannot make tea forget it) and cleaning the bogs is more likely to get you on the ladder leading to fame, riches and strange women.
Evidently the route in is to get working on a film making set. Offering ones services for free, being keen, making the tea (essential in the UK, if you cannot make tea forget it) and cleaning the bogs is more likely to get you on the ladder leading to fame, riches and strange women.
New web site and this is cine page http://www.picsntech.co.uk/cine.html
I was watching a wildlife documentary once on TV. It is one of the many ones that focusses on the wildlife of Africa. However, what was different about this particular film is that alot of the focus was also on the film makers themselves. They are an African film unit who make high quality nature documentaries. Apparently, one of the cinematographers who specialises in filming 'big game animals' in 16mm has never even been to school at all. And Im not talking just about film school but he has never attended high school or primary school either!
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Nigel
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How old are you??
This is important because in the USA I have found that the DPs that didn't go to University got started when they were about 16 years old. They did this by working at a rental house or as a loader. Then they moved into a 2nd or even a 1st AC spot after about 2 years. Then they were shooting on their own after about 4 more. So by the time they were 22 they were shooting low budget and indie projects and building up their name. If you are a bit older or can't live on low wages for a while then perhaps University is for you.
As for my experience with University--I maintain that my professors taught me very little. What I got out of University was the ability to work on my own and do things that failed and push myself without having to explain it to a director or get fired for it. I also met a lot of the same people that I am working with on a regular basis.
The long and the short of it is---Its up to you. Do you want to go to school or not??
Good Luck
This is important because in the USA I have found that the DPs that didn't go to University got started when they were about 16 years old. They did this by working at a rental house or as a loader. Then they moved into a 2nd or even a 1st AC spot after about 2 years. Then they were shooting on their own after about 4 more. So by the time they were 22 they were shooting low budget and indie projects and building up their name. If you are a bit older or can't live on low wages for a while then perhaps University is for you.
As for my experience with University--I maintain that my professors taught me very little. What I got out of University was the ability to work on my own and do things that failed and push myself without having to explain it to a director or get fired for it. I also met a lot of the same people that I am working with on a regular basis.
The long and the short of it is---Its up to you. Do you want to go to school or not??
Good Luck
AFI seminar
When I lived in Southern California I attended a seminar in jobs in the film industry. One of the speakers there was a DP. He never went to school but started out at the age of 21 as a photo lab assistant in a one hour photo lab on the premises of a film studio. I think it was the Universal Lot but I am not sure.
He said that through the contacts he made there he started watching on his days off, and one thing led to another and pretty soon he was loading the film into the camera. Then he worked his way up the ladder. By the time he was 26 he was asked to shoot a film on his own. An indie, but he was so well liked and had such a great disposition everyone wanted to help him to make his dreams come true. And then finally he quit the job at the one hour photo (he was now the manager) and became a full time DP.
I don't think you need schooling if you have the drive and tenacity.
He said that through the contacts he made there he started watching on his days off, and one thing led to another and pretty soon he was loading the film into the camera. Then he worked his way up the ladder. By the time he was 26 he was asked to shoot a film on his own. An indie, but he was so well liked and had such a great disposition everyone wanted to help him to make his dreams come true. And then finally he quit the job at the one hour photo (he was now the manager) and became a full time DP.
I don't think you need schooling if you have the drive and tenacity.
Interesting to read what the state of affairs seems to be in USA. It seems like the concept of cinema-schools are a bit different. In my part of Europe, that is, Scandinavia, studying at university level usually means one of two things; a theoretical course, where you might or might not get/choose (if you´re so lucky/inclined) hands-on experience. and then it will be video. No film. Then, for the lucky few, there is the second option, namely film-schools "proper", one for each nation (denmark, sweden, norway), where you have intensive testing of the many applicants before chosen few are allowed in. (there are/coming other schools as well, but this is main picture).
I´ve tried the theoretical study, and now I´ll be starting in the Norwegian national filmschool from fall of, and I feel really happy about it, I have the feeling that if you are gonna go to real good film courses - which are truly industry currency - in the US you have to pay up bigtime, in Norway, fortunately, you automatically get state grants (good thing, the students of this school are the most expensive in the country, apart from the F-16 pilots. I think).
The point for anyone considering school is who are you and what do you wanna be? You don´t need school to get a DP, if that´s on your mind, but then again, what´s the point in becoming just a DP? Misunderstand me the right way, what kind of person do you wanna be as a DP? Technical skills are of course required, but where, how, when, with whom, lest we forget for who´s bucks, are you learning, unlearning and creating your expression/interpretation as a cinematographer?
I chose school because I wanna have room for experimentation which I know is hard(er) to get in the industry, I´ve tried some of it (and I was lucky enough to have the school to choose me). But if you really wanna do it, it´s up to you and learning by doing. Just trust your instinct. And be patient (and pissed off once a while).
Best of luck!
Istvan
BTW, theoretical class was really awarding for me as well! But I´m REALLY glad i´m done with, though.
I´ve tried the theoretical study, and now I´ll be starting in the Norwegian national filmschool from fall of, and I feel really happy about it, I have the feeling that if you are gonna go to real good film courses - which are truly industry currency - in the US you have to pay up bigtime, in Norway, fortunately, you automatically get state grants (good thing, the students of this school are the most expensive in the country, apart from the F-16 pilots. I think).
The point for anyone considering school is who are you and what do you wanna be? You don´t need school to get a DP, if that´s on your mind, but then again, what´s the point in becoming just a DP? Misunderstand me the right way, what kind of person do you wanna be as a DP? Technical skills are of course required, but where, how, when, with whom, lest we forget for who´s bucks, are you learning, unlearning and creating your expression/interpretation as a cinematographer?
I chose school because I wanna have room for experimentation which I know is hard(er) to get in the industry, I´ve tried some of it (and I was lucky enough to have the school to choose me). But if you really wanna do it, it´s up to you and learning by doing. Just trust your instinct. And be patient (and pissed off once a while).
Best of luck!
Istvan
BTW, theoretical class was really awarding for me as well! But I´m REALLY glad i´m done with, though.
Go to film school if you don't have to pay for it. That is, if you have family, scholarships, or grants that will foot the expenses. If so, then you'll have access to numerous resources, not the least of which are fellow film enthusiasts. Interaction and feedback is essential to the developing artist.
If you're paying for it yourself, in my view you're better off just taking a few classes and doing most of the work on your own. Move to a larger city with a film community (does Fresno have filmmakers? ;) )
The most important thing whichever way you go is to shoot shoot shoot. Never stop shooting, even if you can't afford it. Lately I've been unable to shoot motion picture film (too expensive), so I've been shooting lots 35mm stills.
One thing: make sure you check out any potential film programs with a great deal of skepticism and a microscope. Talk to students of the programs, past and present. It's probably easier to get ripped off by a "film school" than any other educational program (except maybe computer technology). If you're not careful you'll end up in debt for an education you could have gotten by reading a bunch of books and watching a bunch of DVDs.
If you're paying for it yourself, in my view you're better off just taking a few classes and doing most of the work on your own. Move to a larger city with a film community (does Fresno have filmmakers? ;) )
The most important thing whichever way you go is to shoot shoot shoot. Never stop shooting, even if you can't afford it. Lately I've been unable to shoot motion picture film (too expensive), so I've been shooting lots 35mm stills.
One thing: make sure you check out any potential film programs with a great deal of skepticism and a microscope. Talk to students of the programs, past and present. It's probably easier to get ripped off by a "film school" than any other educational program (except maybe computer technology). If you're not careful you'll end up in debt for an education you could have gotten by reading a bunch of books and watching a bunch of DVDs.
"I'm the master of low expectations. I'm also not very analytical. You know I don't spend a lot of time thinking about myself, about why I do things."â€â€George W. Bush, June 4, 2003
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ericMartinJarvies
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all people are differant. each seeks out and obtains knowledge differantly. for some people, reading the owners manual, or watching a video course, or taking a class is the best and most effective way. this means you are learning what someone else is teaching, so you will learn what they have learned, or what they are teaching, in some cases they themselves have never really learned it, but are certainly preaching it in theory.
or, you can experiement yourself. experience first hand by actually doing the process, and not just reading about the process.
or, a combonation thereof. however, if you are not applying yourself, all the information in the world will not help you. it must be self realized, and understood to the point wherein you must understand more, and more. when you get to a point wherein you do not wish to understand any more about the particular subject, chances are you've moved on to something else.
learning a process or function is only one part of it. there are many differant ways to do the same effecting task/goal/ojective. the key is figuring out how YOU do it best, and then practice and continue to practice as would a snowboarder or wakeboarder ... you learn how to do flip and a twist, which is the same in principal as everyone else doing the flip and twist. however, the way YOU do the flip and twist SPECIFICALLY based on your own flare is really what sets you apart from the rest of them/us. you need only study others that are doing flips and twists long enough until you are ale to do it yourself. from that point forward, you work on your own technique, which is unique onto its self, onto yourself. the same with film making, or competition belly flopping. in the competative arena, those who are players have their positions. you are either on top, on bottom, or someplace inbetween. but make no mistake, you are ranked and you are position, for this is the world we live in.
i have found the best way for myself personally, is to take all of the best, who i personally consider the best. and to take all of the statistically best, who general consensus considers to be the best, and i study what it is they do, or what it is 'it' does(like a machine or device). then, if i do not understand the mechainics behind what is making these headliners do what they do, i reverse engineer them, the or it, until i understand what is going on. from that point, i come to speed and catch up to the players on the playing field ... the ones getting the most play. this allows me to e part of the main thrust of the process or happening, instead of sitting on the bench all season, or worse, or being a sideliner who never gets a chance to play. then, one objective at a time i figure out what makes them, the, or it successful, and i master that skill or trait. and once i can no longer learn anything from that resource, i move onto the next. and so on until i am at the top of the list, or the main player on the field, or part of the winning team, the main team, the popular team.
all of this happenes because i make it happen. all of the information out there that is there for the taking, or there for the buying, is worth nothing if i do not recognize it for what it is, and take advantage of understanding it after i have recognized it. and so this is in effect school. so if hte manner in which i have attened school involves a classroom, or a paid teacher, or a mentor, or a collective co-op, or whatever, it is only as good as i make it or recognize it as.
i dropped out of school at a very young age. i double graded from 3rd to 5th grade, and again from 7th to 9th. my first semester of high school, or th grade, i obtained permission from my parents to drop out of school all together. personally, school was not an effective vehicle for me, and it caused more problems instead of creating more oppertunities. i never graduated from high school, nor did i attend college and otain any type of degree. however, i have over the years elected to take various classes and courses wherein i beleived it was the best route for me to discover what it was i was looking to learn. one of these included an advance film school in hollywierd. it was a hands on class where we particpated in making a film, or you portion thereof. even then, i did not attend all of the scheduled days/dates, even though i had paid for them. why? because i realized i would have just been wasting my time because i had either figured it out on my own or did not have particular interest in that one subject or area. so i kept, and i keep going the direction that interests ME.
in summary, school is only a part of the entire process. if YOU need it, then take advantage of it. if you dont, then do not waste your time. to say it is either the answer or not the answer is a choice that only YOU can make. perhaps a more specific question would be to ask aout a specific school, and what it has to offer, or what it has offered to others in the past. the world will keep moving with or without you. however, if you take notice, you will realize you can change the course of its movement, as well as those who are moving along with it. and that i fear is our greatest urge and desire ... to be the one who sets the movements into motion. alas, look at me, look at what I have done!!
eric
or, you can experiement yourself. experience first hand by actually doing the process, and not just reading about the process.
or, a combonation thereof. however, if you are not applying yourself, all the information in the world will not help you. it must be self realized, and understood to the point wherein you must understand more, and more. when you get to a point wherein you do not wish to understand any more about the particular subject, chances are you've moved on to something else.
learning a process or function is only one part of it. there are many differant ways to do the same effecting task/goal/ojective. the key is figuring out how YOU do it best, and then practice and continue to practice as would a snowboarder or wakeboarder ... you learn how to do flip and a twist, which is the same in principal as everyone else doing the flip and twist. however, the way YOU do the flip and twist SPECIFICALLY based on your own flare is really what sets you apart from the rest of them/us. you need only study others that are doing flips and twists long enough until you are ale to do it yourself. from that point forward, you work on your own technique, which is unique onto its self, onto yourself. the same with film making, or competition belly flopping. in the competative arena, those who are players have their positions. you are either on top, on bottom, or someplace inbetween. but make no mistake, you are ranked and you are position, for this is the world we live in.
i have found the best way for myself personally, is to take all of the best, who i personally consider the best. and to take all of the statistically best, who general consensus considers to be the best, and i study what it is they do, or what it is 'it' does(like a machine or device). then, if i do not understand the mechainics behind what is making these headliners do what they do, i reverse engineer them, the or it, until i understand what is going on. from that point, i come to speed and catch up to the players on the playing field ... the ones getting the most play. this allows me to e part of the main thrust of the process or happening, instead of sitting on the bench all season, or worse, or being a sideliner who never gets a chance to play. then, one objective at a time i figure out what makes them, the, or it successful, and i master that skill or trait. and once i can no longer learn anything from that resource, i move onto the next. and so on until i am at the top of the list, or the main player on the field, or part of the winning team, the main team, the popular team.
all of this happenes because i make it happen. all of the information out there that is there for the taking, or there for the buying, is worth nothing if i do not recognize it for what it is, and take advantage of understanding it after i have recognized it. and so this is in effect school. so if hte manner in which i have attened school involves a classroom, or a paid teacher, or a mentor, or a collective co-op, or whatever, it is only as good as i make it or recognize it as.
i dropped out of school at a very young age. i double graded from 3rd to 5th grade, and again from 7th to 9th. my first semester of high school, or th grade, i obtained permission from my parents to drop out of school all together. personally, school was not an effective vehicle for me, and it caused more problems instead of creating more oppertunities. i never graduated from high school, nor did i attend college and otain any type of degree. however, i have over the years elected to take various classes and courses wherein i beleived it was the best route for me to discover what it was i was looking to learn. one of these included an advance film school in hollywierd. it was a hands on class where we particpated in making a film, or you portion thereof. even then, i did not attend all of the scheduled days/dates, even though i had paid for them. why? because i realized i would have just been wasting my time because i had either figured it out on my own or did not have particular interest in that one subject or area. so i kept, and i keep going the direction that interests ME.
in summary, school is only a part of the entire process. if YOU need it, then take advantage of it. if you dont, then do not waste your time. to say it is either the answer or not the answer is a choice that only YOU can make. perhaps a more specific question would be to ask aout a specific school, and what it has to offer, or what it has offered to others in the past. the world will keep moving with or without you. however, if you take notice, you will realize you can change the course of its movement, as well as those who are moving along with it. and that i fear is our greatest urge and desire ... to be the one who sets the movements into motion. alas, look at me, look at what I have done!!
eric
eric martin jarvies
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661
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BK
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Re: Is Film School necessary to become a cinematographer?
Film school is not necessary, some of my ex-colleagues never went to film school like me, and they have became good well known directors and producers working from the bottom up and learning as they climb up that ladder. Knock on doors and show that you are keen......... it might be hard for the first few years and you could be asked to do all sorts of stupid jobs. However, being on the set you'll be amaze at how much you could learn by just observing, lighting, camera, and don't be afraid to ask any questions.Ashesoftime wrote:Hello all,
I need your opinion on this, it seems to me that most of the DPs working today have been to film school, what do you think about it? is film school really necessary to be a professional cinematographer? I know some of you are film students and some of you might have worked with or have friends in the film industry so please give me your opinions
I was told when I first started out that:- " It's not what you know, it's who you know in this town!" How true.
Having said all that I admit I did enjoy my college days and how much "freedom" I had over the process of making my own films. I am still waiting for my big break however.
Regards,
Bill
And there are no schools to learn how to be the president and God knows there should be. All you need is enough money, good campaign management , the right image and in the case of JFK, a father who knows people that can fix the vote. ( Word of caution: once you become president do not let your overzealous little brother betray the ones that got you there) This advice also works in the entertainment industry.