print film: what is it? and can you shoot on it?

[themagickite]

looking at the kodak catalog i came across this:

"KODAK VISION Color Print Film / 3383 / VCP628 / 16 mm x 2000 ft roll / On Core / Super 8 (1-3) / 2R-1667
16 mm with Super 8 Perforations"

assuming you cut it up into 100ft rolls, would you be able to shoot this on a DS8 camera? if so what would the ISO and colour balance be?

reading a little bit about it i found out that it has a polyester base and no remjet (might be great for home processed c41 experiments!)

cheers

[christoph]

yeah that should work as DS8 film. it's almost certainly tungsten balanced and the EI in the single digit range. it's not C-41 though.

but expose it around 6ASA and throw it into C-41 and you should get some cool weird high contrast results, possibly with halos.

++ c.

[themagickite]

wow 6 iso? crazy, you'd need sooo much light!
yeah i know it's not c41, but you might be able to process it in c41 chemistry as there is no remjet to worry about.

[christoph]

well, 6ASA would give you about f4 with 85 conversion filter on a bright sunny day.
i wouldnt try it on a night scene though ;)
++ c.

[richard p. t.]

Anyone have the ACS handbook handy? In it you will find the specifications for super 8 print films. I can't remember if 1-3 will mean the film has perforations on both edges of the 16mm film - as in DS8 - or whether it will have a row of sprockets down the centre like two pieces of super 8 film side by side. I suspect that 1-3 will mean the latter, and 1-4 would be like ds8. That being the case you could only shoot one side in a DS8 camera. This recolection of what 1-3 means makes sense if you remember that this stock and others like it were inteded for super 8 printers that printed multiple images at the same time. If it was suitable for ds8 cameras, then the printer would have to print upside down and from the other end of the film to make two useable prints. So no, not useable in DS8.
I am going to shoot some 3383 16mm print today and process it as colour reversal. I am thinking I might use a piece of blank negative film as a filter so that the scene has the orange mask that neg film has. Might be interesting.
richard

[christoph]

I can't remember if 1-3 will mean the film has perforations on both edges of the 16mm film - as in DS8 - or whether it will have a row of sprockets down the centre like two pieces of super 8 film side by side. I suspect that 1-3 will mean the latter, and 1-4 would be like ds8.

hmm, very good thinking richard, most likely the perfs will be on one side and on the center if it was meant for mass copies. the only way it would be useful on both sides if it was intended for a single copy of an original neg that gets printed before slitting, and that doesnt seem too big of a market

speaking of which (and without hi-jacking the topic), anybody knows a good N8 slitter that is readily available?

I am going to shoot some 3383 16mm print today and process it as colour reversal. I am thinking I might use a piece of blank negative film as a filter so that the scene has the orange mask that neg film has. Might be interesting.

interesting indeed!
if you use a blank neg from 35mm (or even 120) film it could be even mounted in front of the lens, which would help to throw any imperfections out of focus (that's probably what you planned anyway).
you also might want to try slapping a 85 filter on top of the blank neg, which would help to prevent too big of a blue cast if you're shooting in daylight.

++ c.

[T-Scan]

I wish more than one lab in the world was using the S8 perfed 3383 for printing S8 so we could project the negs. I love making workprints to project from any stock in 16mm. Interesting you can still make workprints in 16mm (thank god) while there are way more people projecting S8.

[MIKI-814]

I wish more than one lab in the world was using the S8 perfed 3383 for printing S8 so we could project the negs. I love making workprints to project from any stock in 16mm. Interesting you can still make workprints in 16mm (thank god) while there are way more people projecting S8.

http://www.andecfilm.de/de/d_s8_neg_pos.htm

[Jim Carlile]

Yes, 1-3 means the perfs are not one both sides, so it can't be used in a camera. Plus, the pitch is different.

I remembered that Ektachrome reversal print film could be used in DS8 cameras, and found that Clive Tobin already addressed this a few years back:

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavende ... tfilm.html

Doesn't this positive print stock have some insane minimum order, like 79 rolls?

A better idea is to use B/W print film in 16mm cameras. It's blue sensitive, so landscapes will wash out, but it used to be a common thing to do on the cheap and successfully. ASA is about 6 but that was once standard.

[Jim Carlile]

Oh and by the way, 3383 is positive print film which means you won't get a reversed image even if you could shoot it in a camera 1-4.

B/W positive print stock in 16mm-- the only print stock now available-- can be reversed during processing, as can any B/W negative film. The pitch is different, but it can be ordered in acetate, so estar won't be a problem. 7302 is available in double perf with a reasonable minimum, too, so there won't be the a-wind b-wind problem.

7302 is also priced right---$152.00 for a 2,000 foot core, with a 2-core minimum. Kodak also has a duplicating negative film in 16mm, 7234, at $375.00 for a 2,000 foot core, 2-roll minimum, double perf too. Both are acetate base. (hmm.. Kodak has cut down their minimums-- cleaning house?)

During the 30s and 40s, using print stock as original and 'reversing' film were big subjects for experimentation. For double perf fans, buying lightstruck 7302 print film- though low speed-- might be worth it. $300 for 4,000 feet of 16mm film is pretty nice. You can easily process it straight without trying the reversing hassle, and then transfer it or even make positive prints out of it. Yum.

[moviemat]

And dont forget agfa still amke print stock:

http://www.agfa.com/en/sp/solutions/cine/index.jsp

I've only had experience of the ST8D and can heartily recommend it. I'd like to try the colour one this year.

Mat

[aj]

If you can bear buying from Kahl this seems a bit likewise:
http://www.kahlfilm.de/content.php?nav=11&productid=13

60 meter S8 at Euro 29
In cartridge with processing 15m at Euro 29

It is a ISO 12 document film, supposedly with emulsion casting production problems in it.

[richard p. t.]

well I did shoot some 3383 vision print film as camera film the other day and processed it in E6 as reversal. It came out as a positive but there were no blacks. In that respect the result was like old fogged colour reversal film with lifted and colour shifted blacks. The image itself was very high contrast (as one would expect). Also very very grainy - which was unexpected. The base tended towards a dark purple. In camera I used two 85 filters - one to simulate the orange mask of negative film, the other to correct for daylight. I tried some with both filters, and some with only one. The results are so un-true anyway that I preferred the single filter to the two together. I shot using my bolex with the light meter set to 2 asa. This was about right. I figured that the stock might well be about 6 asa as neg, so maybe 12 asa as reversal - then minus 2/3rds of a stop for each of the filters and another 2/3rd for the bolex shutter and reflex system. That makes two stops, so 3 asa. I opened up a little more than that, so I say I used 2 asa.
The raised base density was a surprise. I might try increasing the second developer time. It was as though the reversed image didn't develope to completion. Extending the 2nd dev time will of course also effect the colours. I'll see how it goes.

[Jim Carlile]

Isn't 3383 actually ECP processing-- a variation on C-41? if so I imagine the results for negative would be better than E-6.

The price for 3383 really can't be beat, either-- double perf 16mm version at $157.00 for 3,000 feet, with a two-core minimum, means you get 6,000 feet for $300. Cheaper than video! It's like they're paying you to use it. And Kodak will deliver it to your doorstep, too!

[richard p. t.]

Yes its ECP. Processing it in E6 as I did was of course cross-processing. The grain was a surprise as when 3383 is processed in ECP it is a very fine print stock. I will try some shot in camera and processed in ECP shortly. I have ECP chemistry, but I don't often mix it out for use.
rt