Kodachrome S.8 is come back!

[MIKI-814]

I find this topic very interesting. I'm following it regularly.

My question is:

¿Has Kodak definitely anounced the end of the Kodachrome 35mm still film production?

If they anounced the end for the S8 format, I guess it would be logical to do the same for the 35mm stills...

[Jim Carlile]

No, they haven't at all, and that's what is so annoying about some of the uninformed comments on this thread.

In fact, Kodak may very well still be actually coating Kodachrome on an irregular basis. None of these other guys knows whether that's the case or not, so their opinions about Kodachrome are completely meaningless here.

Also-- they all completely miss my point. I'm talking about special-ordering slide film to be cut and perfed in 16mm, DS8 or regular 8mm. Not "movie film."

Very aggravating.

Makes me wonder whether any of these experts has even asked Kodak in the first place if they will finish Kodachrome for these formats.

I doubt it-- they don't even understand the question or the concept.

The processing issues revolving around K-14 would not be a factor at all in a special order. Kodak could care less whether the purchaser had an inability or hardship attached to dealing with Dwayne's. Why would they-- if the purchaser wanted it, so what?

I'm talking about SPECIAL ORDERS, what Kodak calls FTOs. Not their inclination to want to do this on their own for retail purposes.

Somebody else asked Kodak about supplying Ektachrome 64T slide film in 16mm-- and they got it, for 40 cents a foot, with a 10,000 foot minimum. Why not Kodachrome 64?

[cineandy]

when k25 was axed, there was an outcry from users of the 16mm format wanting a daylight stock, now if no supplier/ reseller could manage to get kodak to cut k64 into 16mm lenghts back in 2002, there there is no chance these days. I would of thought the likes of JS or Wittner could have some influance and perhaps justify a large special order from kodak, but i don't see 16mm k64 listed on there websites... Some time back, i thought wittner tried to get kodak to load 100d into the super 8 carts, kodak declined ( i think, ), if that was the case, and one would assume wittner placed a hefty order, then absolute no chance with k64 being cut in 16mm lengths...
I dont need to ask kodak, whether they will cut k64 in 16mm lengths, as i know the answer will be no... Er isn't 16mm, ds-8 or regular 8 movie film then?, k64 wont transport properly unless lubricated as the case with 64t...

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but i am regular user of k/c in the cine format

[MIKI-814]

Some time back, i thought wittner tried to get kodak to load 100d into the super 8 carts, kodak declined ( i think, ), if that was the case, and one would assume wittner placed a hefty order, then absolute no chance with k64 being cut in 16mm lengths...

Maybe it's a stupid question, but where does Wittnerchrome 100D come from? isn't the film inside Ekt100D from Kodak?

[cineandy]

kodak ( as i understand ) perfs 100d into ds-8 lengths, assume wittner is splitting 100d ds-8 the repackaging the stock into carts. Perfect perfing by kodak, yeilds stable images, hence why i have not experianced any unstable images with 100d, in 8mm, ds-8 and 16mm.....

[Juergen]

P.S.-- just a thought. Someone at another site said that Kodak quoted them a price of $4400 for 10,000 feet of E64T, slit and perfed for 16mm. Apparently, Kodak will slit and perf slide film for MP use.

That means that maybe the Wittner Kodachrome is special ordered K slide film, slit and perfed for DS8? Figures. If so-- this means it is indeed real Kodachrome, new-- but with the slightly thicker still-film base. So it is big news-- K is back!

Again, this is all complete nonsense. The CINE films have always been Kodachrome 25 and 40. Slide film is 64 and 200 ASA. Wittner did NOT use slide film but the last batch of CINE film Kodachrome 40.

Slide film is different from cine film in coating and other details. Slide film does not work as cine film. We can see this with all the problems of jitteriness with Fuji Velvia 50 D. schmalfilm and smallformat magazines got a lot of letters and e-mails within the last months about the problems with 16mm and Super 8 film stock Velvia 50 D - which is a slide film. Sometimes it works, often it does not work. You can not rely on this.

Wittnerchrome 100D in Super 8 cartridges is Ektachrome 100D CINE film. So this is a completly different thing. Ektachrome 100D is also available as 16mm CINE film by Kodak. It is a great CINE film stock and we haven't heart about problems with it.

Don't mix up SLIDE films and CINE films. SLIDE films are not applicable as CINE films. They do cause problems within the Super 8 cartridges and because they are thicker, only 12-13 meters can be put in a cartridge. They also cause problems at the film gate of 16mm cameras like Bolex or Beaulieu.

Why not concentrating on the CINE products we do have? Using these films means saving these film stocks for the future.

[RichardB]

Actually Juergen, K25 was both a cine and a slide film - hence Kodak dropped them both at the same time. You can't really say "only concentrate on cine products" as the slide version sales of Kodachrome 64 is what's keeping cine processing of Kodachrome alive at Dwayne's. If it wasn't for people buying k64 slide film, Wittner wouldn't be able to sell their new "40T" as nobody would be processing it.

I've just been scanning some slides my Dad shot on Kodachrome 25 in Ontario and Wyoming in 1979 and 1981 and do they ever look good! Probably the sharpest colour film I've ever seen, much finer grain and stronger colours than K64.

Kodachrome 40 was available in slide format at some point as I've seen boxes for sale on ebay from the late 80's, although I do not know if that was the same as the cine variety or whether it was tungsten or daylight balanced.

[Juergen]

Why is nearly everybody in this threat misunderstanding what I am saying? I ve said: concentrate on products that have been made for cine cameras and stop bemoaning about or experimenting with slide films that have never been evolved and produced for CINE cameras.

[Will2]

But that's what we do here... "bemoan" things.

I'm checking with my rep to see what they say about a special run for $10k or so.

[RichardB]

I understood perfectly what you said - you said:

"Why not concentrating on the CINE products we do have? Using these films means saving these film stocks for the future.",

and I was simply remarking that actually using K64 slide film will save cine film stocks for use like expired K40 and this new Wittner 40T as if it wasn't for that slide film Kodak wouldn't be supplying Dwayne's with K-14 chemistry. Just because I corrected you on saying K25 was also a slide film it doesn't mean I didn't understand you're main argument :roll:

If people want to experiment with slide films in motion picture use then its up to them to try it, I'm pretty sure most people aware it's hit and miss in terms of transport and stability issues yet they do it anyway as its fun to try something different and for some people the cine stocks might not be giving them what they want. You can't tell people to stop experimenting, but I can see where you're coming from when they come back and moan about all these problems they're having with slide film in cine cameras as if it shouldn't be happening. I think the problem probably lies there with the manufacturers that repackage it like Wittner, Cinevia and Spectra, as sometimes their marketing can lead people into being fooled that these films should be running perfectly even though they weren't designed for motion picture use.

[Juergen]

Quite right, Richard. Within a week I had 7 users of Fuji Velvia 50D 16mm stock (coming from different suppliers) telling me about stability problems. Each of them paid 90 Euros for a roll of film plus processing. That's the horror! Such film users are lost for our hobby, if they get these kind of results. A product that is offered for CINE cameras must work in a cine cameras - with no problems at all. That is why I say: Use those products that are really made for cine cameras.

[RichardB]

Yeah the expense is one thing that puts me off it even more - I can get at least 2 rolls of 64T purchased and processed for the cost of 1 process paid roll of Super 8 Velvia, so that combined with the risk makes it quite an unattractive prospect for me.

I really would prefer Super 8 related companies to pursue providing better service for the Kodak stocks, such as taking Nanolab's route of selling modified 64T cartridges with a notch for 160T intended for push processing. There is a real gap in the market for a low light colour reversal stock, which could be filled by push processing 64T - I've done it and I know that it works well (better than the old 160T!). I actually also think it makes far more financial sense to do something like that, than to invest heavily in a new cartridge design for a slide film stock just to try and get it to work. Heck, if I thought either Andec or Dwayne's would accept cartridges renotched for 160T and processed them as such at no extra cost, I'd probably set up a renotching business myself!

[Jim Carlile]

Isn't Ektachrome 64T just their slide film perfed and packed into S8 cartridges?

Has anyone ever asked if Kodak will finish-to-order K-64 as 16mm, DS8, or R8?

[cineandy]

64t is a slide film, but has been properly adapted ( now ) for cine, quality perfing and cutting, hence why 100d and 64t work properly in cine cameras. Unlike 16mm 50d, regular 8 50d, super 8 50d and 16mm fuji 64t.. I've finished experimenting with reperfed slide film, yes the fuji offering has greater resolving power than 100d, but the kodak stocks transport perfectly, even 64t transport ok now...
And yes i've emailed kodak in the US about the possiblity of a special order, i won't hold my breath on them replying though.

[Juergen]

From cinematography.com, John Pytlak (Kodak):

The motion-picture version (of the slide film) will be known as KODAK EKTACHROME 64T Color Reversal Film 7280. If any formulation "tweeks" are needed, I suspect they will be only to optimize performance in Super-8 cameras, and not change "look". (...) "Performance" is physical transport characteristics like noise, steadiness, etc.