Kodachrome S.8 is come back!

[Juergen]

Hi Jim,
there is no big news. Kodachrome is not manufactureed anymore. This is DS8 film stock slit into Super 8. It was deep frozen and can be used for some time. Manufacture at Kodaks's plant has ended years before. No creation of legends without any new facts please.

[jaxshooter]

I'm from the post-kodachrome era (hey, I'm 21 and started shooting super8 after kodak stopped making it) but I was wondering how this stock compares to the vision2 200T stock? What would you say the biggest differences are, image-wise?

Hi Greg,

Kodachrome will have a distinctly different look than Vision 200T. Remember reversal films are designed for direct projection primarily (the only exception I know of is the very defunct Ektachrome 7252 ECO, which was discontinued in 1985. It was a low con reversal designed for printing as this was the pre video era) so the contrast will be a good bit higher on a telecine transfer than with any of the negative stocks. You also don't have near as much latitude to play with, so you'll need some extra fill light in shadow areas as details will black out on you. Kodachrome makes a really pretty sunset sillouette shot with it's rich, vibrant colors, but don't expect the leeway or forgiveness of a negative stock. Make sure your exposure is spot on every time, and if you err, it's best to err on the side of underexposure than overexposure. The opposite of negative stocks.
It's definitely a signature look, associated (at least for me anyway, I'm a baby boomer) with a period feel.

[greg_8mm]

Thanks for the reply jaxshooter..

I just shot my first carts of vision2 and I'm very curious on how they'll turn out. I always heard stories about how beautiful kodachrome looked like, but I was blown away by the multiple vision2 clips on the internet..
I guess since I want to transfer my film to digital anyways, there are only advantages to using negative stocks. I kinda like the warm colors of the kodachrome as you describe them though. If my vision2 carts turn out unsaturated or 'cold' I'll give this kodacrhome a try..

[jaxshooter]

For versatility, you're better off with the negative stocks. Kodachrome is great for signature looks. Dream flashback sequences, period look, the color saturation can give you a kind of bizarre, sureal look. You might want to experiment with E 100 D and Fuji Velvia. Beware of the Velvia, though, it's a little thicker base stock than the others and some folks, including myself have had stability issues.
You can also get a sort of pseudo Kodachrome look with negative stocks like 7245 (they may have replaced that with a new stock, but I'm talking about the slow, ISO 50 daylight balance stock) and overexpose a little.

[Jim Carlile]

Hi Jim,
there is no big news. Kodachrome is not manufactureed anymore. This is DS8 film stock slit into Super 8. It was deep frozen and can be used for some time. Manufacture at Kodaks's plant has ended years before. No creation of legends without any new facts please.

Once again, you're wrong. Juergen, quite often you just don't get it.

Kodak is very much making Kodachrome for still-film use. At least, they are 'finishing' it-- they might also even be coating it once a year or so.

And-- apparently from a 16mm user-- they will allow special orders for still-film 64T to be perfed for 16. So-- they most likely will also grant special orders for their still Kodachrome to be perfed for DS8.

I suspect this is what is being done, as they claim the film is a little thicker-- which is exactly the longtime difference between S8 and still films in the past. The still Kodachrome has a thicker base than the discontinued S8.

Has anyone asked? I can't imagine why Wittner would use old frozen DS8 stock if they can get it fresh.

[Juergen]

Once again, you're wrong. Juergen, quite often you just don't get it.

Kodak is very much making Kodachrome for still-film use. At least, they are 'finishing' it-- they might also even be coating it once a year or so.

And-- apparently from a 16mm user-- they will allow special orders for still-film 64T to be perfed for 16. So-- they most likely will also grant special orders for their still Kodachrome to be perfed for DS8.

I suspect this is what is being done, as they claim the film is a little thicker-- which is exactly the longtime difference between S8 and still films in the past. The still Kodachrome has a thicker base than the discontinued S8.

Has anyone asked? I can't imagine why Wittner would use old frozen DS8 stock if they can get it fresh.

Once again, you're wrong. Jim, quite often you just don't get it.

There is no Kodachrome production any longer, no coating at all. Production has been ceased a year before. All the film stock that is sold today comes from old frozen film stock. Kodak still has some (unperforated) rolls of this in the storehouse.

Of course I asked Wittner and Kodak before I published my comments concerning this topic. Do you have any sturdy proofs for your hazy allegations?

Wittner Super 8 film stock comes from original Kodak perforated Double Super 8 stock. It is slit to Super 8 by Wittner. It is thicker because it is the original 16mm Kodachrome film stock, which was always a little bit thicker than Super 8. This film stock has been frozen by Kodak. It is good for use within the next 1-2 years. It is coming from the last batch, made 12- 18 months before. Nevertheless it is a good product. But the selling will stop soon because there is only a small quantity left. Then, Kodachrome will be sold out - everywhere.

[cineandy]

from the information i received sometime back when ordering ds-8 k40 from Wittner, Juergen's information is correct, current cartridge k40 is cut from a stockpile of ds-8 k40..


Jim asked, why Wittner would cut super 8 k40 from ds-8, simple, large stock pile, few users of the ds-8 format, incredible kodak even cut ds-8 k40 so late in the video era. I even found a stockist of ds-8 k25 earlier this year!!! ( exp date of 2004 ).

You will no see anymore kodachrome movie film manufactured or cut by kodak in our lifetime, whats currently out there, mainly in Wittners, is the end of an era....... ( kodak, please prove me wrong )

[Juergen]

That's right, Cineandy.

[CineGuerrilha]

i guess if a lot of people that love the kodachrome wants it back, small factories like the re-born agfa in belgium could try to resurrect it...

[Jim Carlile]

Kodak may not be coating Kodachrome any longer (not too sure about that-- they were doing it once a year), but it is very much in stock and being finished-- that's what they do, they coat a bunch, pop it in the freezer, and then finish it-- which means they cut and perf it, put it in boxes, and sell it.

Which means-- you can order it! As still film.

And I strongly suspect that if someone placed a $4400 special order, Kodak would slit and perf it for DS8 or even 16mm-- why not, unless there were technical reasons?

They do that for 64T. They charge about 40 cents a foot for 16mm.

In other words, there is no such thing as "old stock." Kodachrome has not been discontinued, so what are you guys talking about? On top of that even, the movie film version of Kodachrome had a slightly thinner base-- so why is Wittner selling the thicker-based version?

I'll also venture that Kodak has in their warehouse a tremendous amount in roll form, which is the reason why they still sell it, and will for awhile.

[Juergen]

Jim, please read what I have written before: the 16mm base of Kodachrome was always thicker as the Super 8 base. The Wittnerchrome 40T is made from DS 8 film stock, which was original 16mm film stock. This is the reason why it is thicker.

There have been company trying to buy some more Kodachrome movie film and Kodak said that there is none anymore. So it is wrong to repeat and repeat you could buy it if you would place a big order.

Kodachrome movie film can only be processed at one place in the world. Kodak announced the end of Kodachrome movie stock two years before. There is no news since then.

[cineandy]

Jim, if kodak had stocks of 16mm k40, and would cut a special order for $4400, like you say inyour post, then i for sure would place a special order, i would put that cash up for 500 rolls of 16mm k/c. There IS no more cine kodachrome, please tell me where you info comes from, kodak! You obviously know something we don't....

[Jim Carlile]

There's no more cine film, but there is 35mm slide film Kodachrome available. It's in the catalog and they are selling it.

My point is that others have very recently special-ordered slide film 64T to be cut and perfed into 16mm, at $4400 for 10,000 feet.

So maybe Kodak will do the same for Kodachrome-- because they are STILL finishing it for 35mm slide. There's been no notice of discontinuation yet, as far as I know.

Has anyone asked them? Why not?

There could be 3 reasons why they won't:

-- they are rapidly running out of the frozen rolls,

-- it's too complicated and they don't want to be bothered,

-- they don't want to be stuck supplying Dwaynes with the K-14 chemicals for very much longer, although cine film finishing would get rid of it faster.

I'll bet if someone put in a good order for K-14 16mm and DS8, Kodak would fill it to get the stuff off their hands. How much slide film could they possibly be selling at $7 a roll?

[cineandy]

Jim, for a minute i actually thought you had contacts in kodak. I'm afraid your in a dream land, there is NO more cine kodachrome, i have tried via kodak uk and Dwaynes, along asking JS... I recall when k25 in the 16mm foramt was axed, there was talk of whether k64 could be cut into the 16mm, as a daylight based stock would have yeilded better images than k40. Kodak reperfing k64 never happened.. Kodak may have cut 64t for a special order, but they won't cut kodachrome.
You point of 64t being cut is noted, but we're talking of k/c.
Once again your also assuming kodak wont want to supply Dwaynes with chemicals for much longer. Have you asked Dwaynes how much longer kodak will support the k14 process?..

Jim are you a regular k/c user??

[RichardB]

Kodak apparently dropped Kodachrome 25 and Kodachrome 200 from their product ranges because when it came to do a new coating, the films didn't come out quite right and it wouldn't have been economically viable to spend the money in fixing the problem based on how much they sold of the films. Perhaps that was part of the problem with Kodachrome 40? Thats just speculation on my part though.

I still buy Kodachrome brand new all the time, I'm an avid user of it in 35mm slide films and the processing turnaround is pretty good considering it goes to switzerland, then to dwayne's, back to switzerland and then back to me in only around 10 days. The latest stock I just bought has an expiry date of 08/2009 on the box if that interests anyone.

Kodak won't cut Kodachrome 64 into movie film now because having the processing infrastructure is a major pain in the arse for them with the slide films as it is, and im sure they were happy to get rid of the little yellow mailers for K40. It eats heavily into any profit margins they may have from the film, and they''d have to have some sort of process paid deal with it outside of the states because otherwise nobody would buy a film they have to send to Kansas. This is why K64 is no longer sold in Japan, because of the issues processing it.

I'm not sure I'd even want Kodachrome 64 as a movie film to be honest, it's extremely contrasty for a still film, so for a movie film the light meter would be moving too much for my liking with all that action in the shot. Its probably grainier than K40 was as it seems pretty grainy on my slides, almost around the same ballpark that Ektachrome 64T is in terms of grain.