Blasphemy! Question about cheap HD Cameras

[sk360]

Has anyone has used some of those low budget, $200+ dollar HD cameras like the Go-HD from Aiptek? I'm looking for a low-fi HD camera that can complement the "asthetics" when I'm exposing for the grain in S8 or 16mm. Ofcourse, I could ask in a HD forum, but alot of those guys don't seem to know as much about film as people here do

[Scotness]

Don't know - but what ever you do get your HD workflow worked out first - otherwise you will find yourself high and dry unable to edit your footage (as happened to a friend of mine) - codecs, intermediary codecs and NLE's are the biggest issues - as well as CPU's!

Scot

[vidwerk]

I was going to pick one of these Aiptek's a while ago. Then I saw some example footage of its "rolling shutter". Ouch. looked like viewing footage through a bowl of jello.

vidwerk.

[reflex]

Yes, I've had first-hand experience with the new Aiptek HD camera. A friend brought one along while we were shooting some real coverage of Ford's Model T Centennial event recently.

The good: It has a tripod mount, optical zoom (only 3x) and is reasonably easy to use. Compact and light.

The bad: Not good for capturing motion - you get some really weird rolling artifacts when shooting scenes with lots of motion, especially vertical lines. No external mic input. Inconsistent audio. The little cloth case doesn't adequately cover the lens, no matter how you stuff the camera in.

I'd put the overall quality as lower than a widescreen DV camcorder. You're better off buying a cheap Canon ZR-800 miniDV camera (and that ain't saying much).

[adamgarner]

"You get what you pay for."

How 'bout that?

As someone that shoots HD on a Sony FX1, I've got to agree with the "figure out your workflow first." Start with a real-life "budget" vs "requirements" list. Here are some ideas:

1: NLE system. You NEED to consider your needs here. Final Cut Pro, Vegas, Avid, iMovie (really good actually!).
2: Hardware : Are you ready to get into new hardware? You probably need to. Most of the codecs out there depend on host processor speed and memory.

1 & 2 will help you figure out 3: What kind of camera you want. All HD cameras in the pro-sumer market use some sort of codec to fit the HD image onto either tape or solid state cards. HDV, DVCPRO HD, XDCAM, whatever it is it needs CPU power to play the footage back on your computer. It also requires an NLE system smart and current enough to work with it.

Long ago I bought a Sony FX1, HDV camera. Awesome right? Well, maybe.. until I realized my 2GHz Dual G5 wasn't going to play back HDV very well at all. Super choppy at times, and LONG render times. Then, they released the 8-core Mac's with the Intel processors that are so well designed to play ProRes422 HD material. So, I did a switch in workflow. Now I wish I'd just bought an Panasonic HVX200.

Just know what you need, and get something you can grow into. Don't spend 1/2 as much on something that wont last as long.

[sk360]

Thanks for all the imputs.The only real concern( other then the codecs)would be image motion but other then that I just want something that's kind of low-fi to go with grainy S8. The Speed HD7 looks pretty good to me, so long as I can get it to work in FCP.

[El Jeffe]

Checkout the Panasonic SD-9. Alot of guys are using this as a B-cam to the HVX200 and are using it for RC Helicopter rigs. It's under 500 bucks now and produces a great image for that price. I would get the best picture you can get for the money. If you want more of a Raw look you can always do that in post.

I believe the workflow is best for this camera on an intel based Mac running a newer version of FCP since it uses the AVCHD codec recorded onto SD cards.

[Chris-B]

Hi,
If you are after something lofi video wise how about a Fisher-Price PXL 2000?
They look cool too!
Not sure how much they go for these days (if you can find one!).
Chris.

[BigBeaner]

Get an Canon HV20/HV30, it's pretty shocking in terms of price and options. It's good for when you can't possibly shoot film or want to shoot a lot, whatever. www.hv20.com or www.vimeo.com and search to look at the footage.

[MovieStuff]

Get an Canon HV20/HV30, it's pretty shocking in terms of price and options.

Right on. The HV20 and HV30 from Canon is ridiculously sharp and practically free, in terms of the quality you get for the money. The only difference between the 20 and the 30 is the HV30 now also offers 30p (in addition to 24p) while the HV20 offers only 24p. Both offer 60i, as well. My only complaint, and it's a small one, is the use of the rolling shutter necessitated by the CMOS imaging chip. If you get either camera, make sure that you use a slightly higher shutter speed than normal to avoid rubbery objects during pans or extreme motion. The effect is subtle but looks different than the global shutter effect found on CCDs. But, again, this is a small thing considering that this $850 camera outputs an image comparable to my $5000 Sony HVRZ1U. Sure, the Sony 3CCD array has slightly better contrast but it isn't $4000 better, that's for damned sure, and the Canon is sharper than the Sony, hands down. Use the Canon until it breaks and then just get a new one. Unbelievable that the trickle down for HD technology has worked so fast for the consumer market. I can remember only a year to two ago that CMOS was the red-headed step-child of the imaging market with crappy colors and soft images. Now everything is going CMOS. Amazing....

Roger

[BK]

Has anyone has used some of those low budget, $200+ dollar HD cameras like the Go-HD from Aiptek? I'm looking for a low-fi HD camera that can complement the "asthetics" when I'm exposing for the grain in S8 or 16mm. Ofcourse, I could ask in a HD forum, but alot of those guys don't seem to know as much about film as people here do

I am suprised no one mention Sanyo, since they were one of the first to come out with a consumer tapeless HD camcorder.

Look for a used, demo/closeout Sanyo HD1/HD2 since these are pretty outdated and cheap now with the newer models introduced. They have CCD sensors rather than the CMOS so minimal artifacts when shooting subjects with motion. Quality is pretty good, you could drop a soft filter on the image in your NLE, add some grains etc to make it look even more filmic. As far as I am aware FCP Studio 2 supports AVHCD files, and the latest version of Sony's Vegas but of course a more recent computer is needed.

Do a search on Youtube on Sanyo HD1/HD2 there are a few sample videos.

Good luck

Bill