Camera Stores Closing in Your Town?

[leadlike]

Folks,

After about ninety years in business, my town just had a very nice camera store close its doors. From where we had six photo dealers in town five to ten years ago, we now have one. Even the Wolf/Ritz/Cutler mall formatted stores are all gone here. I was just wondering if this is just a local trend, or if this is happening nationwide.

I suppose the industry is now fueled really by hardware (ie cameras, printers, etc) now more than the papers, film and chemicals that covered the overhead in the mom and pop operations, but this is really just depressing. Now I just shop online, not by choice, but really necessity (that last camera shop in town charges a 50%+ markup from B&H, where most of their stuff comes from anyway). Your thoughts?

[MovieStuff]

After about ninety years in business, my town just had a very nice camera store close its doors.

Now I just shop online, not by choice, but really necessity (that last camera shop in town charges a 50%+ markup from B&H, where most of their stuff comes from anyway). Your thoughts?

I think..... you just supplied the answer to your own question.

Cheaper prices combined with the internet has all but obliterated small camera shops. Even the used camera shops have a hard time competing with ebay pricing. But, honestly, this was bound to happen. When I worked camera retail back in the 70s, our store chain was pretty shook up when mail order places like 47th Street Photo and the such started advertising heavily in the back of photography magazines. Customers would come in for us to demonstrate the latest Nikon and then the customer would buy it from a mail order house at a lower cost. Fortunately we did not work on commission but it was still a drag because you could spend half a hour or more educating a customer about how great a camera system was and then they'd pull the old "I can get this for 25% less out of New York" to try and force a lower price which was impossible with the overhead of a storefront business and staff.

It got so bad that, even though we were an authorized service dealer, the owner of the chain put out the order that we were to not accept returns/repairs on cameras not bought in our store. If they bought it from 47th Street, then they could send it back to 47th Street and see what type of service they got after the sale.

But what we are seeing now is just an extension of what was happening with mail order back then. Only now customers can shop around online and find, in minutes, what it used to take a week or more of research to find. So the internet has simply sped up the process. I don't blame you for going to B&H to get your camera gear cheaper; hell I would too. But every time we do that, we put another nail in the coffin of the small camera store.

Roger

[downix]

For those that don't remember, I used to work for Ritz Camera (also owners of Wolf, Kitz, The Camera Shop, Cameras West, Inkleys Camera, etc). In 2005, at it's peak, we had close to 1500 stores in the company, and were looking to hitting 1700 within a few years. When I left Ritz in '07, we had 1100 stores, and were eyeing which ones to shutter our doors on. And it's not just the internet, but a complete misjudging of the market that hurt Ritz. Ritz started carrying high-wholesale, high-ticket items that were irrelevent to the core industry, like Zune MP3 players and Panasonic HDTV's. In addition, it began cutting on services offered, such as motion picture processing. The worst part tho was in undercutting it's own staff, failing to train them on even basic services offered. I used to have to save my co-workers by listening in on them with customers, and the moment they said "Well, we can't do it" I would correct them. So many times I've heard that we can't process B&W 120 film, slides, ECN film, when our central labs could. Or that we did not carry lenses for cameras outside of the mainstream. I remember one time one of my co-workers tell a customer that Nikon had bought out Canon and were going to shut down their lens line. The sheer amount of misinformation they had was staggering. And I put the blame on a lack of training and knowledge imparted to them.

[super8man]

"Photography" in 2008 means something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than it did in the 1970s and 1980s. Hence, the closure of "camera stores" is really not that surprising. Photography now , and I shudder to use that word as a verb anymore in current context, is merely an extension of text messaging, email, and cellphone communication.

So, the next time you pass a "photographic supplies" store, think of being more surprised that it is still open circa 2008.

[Nigel]

Its not that I don't like buying local. I always try to give business to the local shop first but they can't compete. I went in to buy 30 rolls of 35mm film and asked them to match Adorama's price with shipping included of course. The guy said that was less than they buy it for. My response was that they should be buying from Adorama then.

For me all of it is price. I know what I want. I don't need a salesman to push me one place or the other. If I can save 3 bucks per roll then that is 3 bucks per roll I get in extra profit.

Yeah it sucks to see local guys close if they are decent. It seems that in the photo world most shops are worse than car dealerships. Filled with hard driving salesmen and dorks wondering why their Leica isn't taking great pictures by itself.

Good Luck

[adamgarner]

That's my experience too.

I can easily go online to any number of review sites, and learn about cameras, film, lenses, etc. THEN find the cheapest price online. In this day and age why would ANYONE do otherwise. Better information, better prices.

Nothing infuriates me more than some goon at a camera store who doesn't know anything about photography. More often than not my cameras store tells me I should buy at B&H because they don't have most of the things I need in inventory anyway. What's the point??

All this still begs the question, "How the f*ck does Radio Shack stay in business?"

[CHAS]

Interesting comments. Here in Los Angeles, it seems that only the big serious-amateur or pro camera stores are making it (Freestyle, Samy's, Calumet). In Westwood village (part of West L.A.) there were a few, then two - Bel Air Camera and Ritz. The Ritz was horrible - the salesmen would try to bully you into joining their stupid processing club which you didn't want to join but were practically forced into if you just wanted dupes on one order, and, if you asked how long it would take for a simple 8x10 enlargement they would quote you "10 working days." Ridiculous! So, thank god, they went out of business but no tears were shed because they weren't able to give the customer what they wanted -- good, fast, intelligent service without ridiculous demands. Bel-Air Camera on the other-hand, built it's reputation over the years and has sales people who, more or less, know what they are doing and stock their store with gear the customer needs. So far, they seem to be doing well....

[David M. Leugers]

There were a pretty fair number of camera stores independent of big department stores which had their own camera departments. During the past ten years they have all but disappeared. Their is one lab near me that is hanging on by its fingernails, but I expect them to go belly up also. There is one photo store within 30 miles of me now. They seem to be making it OK by selling digital cameras and some video stuff, but for how long is debatable. The drop in film use for still photos has been dramatic. It is also a real shame because of all the great photos being lost due to erasures, CD problems, computer hard drive failures etc. Many people never make a print of their photos, just email them to their friends and family... To me the whole idea of taking a picture was to preserve the moment. When I look at baby photos of my grandparents who were born in 1891, I know I why I still shoot any important images on film.


David M. Leugers

[filmo]

It seems when I travel with my super-8 camera, there's always at least one place (in major metro areas) that stocks movie film. In my area right now, there's one place left, and while it's got tons of cool stuff (disorganized as hell but fun to browse through), the attitude can be pretty bad. I've been going there since 1990, and it's gotten worse each time I go in. Hard times, I guess.

On the other hand, on my 2005 trip to Chicago, I ran out of K-40 and the very first store I called pointed me to Central Camera in the Loop. I took the train downtown (I was going to take my son to the top of the Sears tower anyway), and I immediately loved the place. It's got a killer vintage storefront and is crowded and narrow inside. They seemed to have everything, including fresh K-40, right behind the counter along with 16mm stocks. The attitude was brisk, but once it was obvious I knew exactly what I wanted, they were reasonably friendly. I even chatted a bit with one of the old-timers about my Nizo. I mentioned that I couldn't find the correct exposure meter batteries at my local camera store, and I didn't have confidence in the ones they substituted. He looked through the viewfinder of my camera (after we loaded it with K-40) and told me that the meter was underexposing by a full stop. He shuffled around the store and found me a set of the proper batteries. When I got the film back weeks later, I saw that he was right. The footage shot before we switched batteries was dark.

Not everyone loves Central Camera, however, as you can see from this page...
http://www.yelp.com/biz/central-camera-co-chicago

[Patrick]

The biggest change regarding camera shops that I have noticed in my local city has been the decline in second hand gear being sold. In actual fact, the vast majority of camera shops here have stopped selling second hand gear altogether. This really frustrates me because almost all of the photographic equipment that I buy is second hand. In days gone by, the shops would usually display the used gear in the shop windows which was really cool. Currently, there are only two, or possibly three camera shops around here that sell second hand gear but how long they will continue to do so is questionable. Evidently, there has been a dramatic shift in the market place. The majority of people nowadays are buying brand new digital gear.

[Angus]

This is an inevitable by-product of the digital boom of the early 2000's.

Most people do not print their digital pictures, or if they do they use supermarkets. So the trade in consumables such as film and D&P is now a trickle compared to what it once was.

So camera shops had the boom times, selling people digital cameras....but people don't tend to buy cameras very often. Most people are not enthusiasts like us, and their cameras stay in the handy-dandy free camera bag 10 months of the year.

What did camera shops actually used to sell? Film, D&P services and perhaps filters were the staple items.

What's left for the camera shops to sell? Printers, batteries, "photo" paper, memory cards....all of which is available cheaper at the supermarkets or online...and many people don't even bother printing their pics these days. Digital enthusiasts can use filters on DSLRs but my hunch is most people will use Photoshop instead. And I don't know anyone with a legally bought copy of that...

What we see is the combined effect of the greed of the shops pushing digital cameras a few years ago, and of e-commerce providing cheaper electronic items.

Camera shops will not die completely. Ther is always a need for somewhere you can actually talk to somebody....or get your pics printed in an hour....or get a replacement battery when you're out and about.

[MovieStuff]

I have no stats to back up my following hunch; just observations of people I know and see.

I think that picture takers fall into two groups. Single and families. Single people tend to shoot a lot of pictures -and very spontaneously- using the handy cell phone camera that they always carry around. And, to be fair, those cell phone cameras are getting really good. Families tend to use DSLRs or other dedicated digital cameras because digital cameras are a typical gift that is given to mom or dad for Christmas, father's day, mother's day, etc. Also, family pictures are typically seen as more important than just "fun shots" taken with cell phones. But, in all, my impression is that even though the film based photo market is dying on the vine, people are shooting more pictures than ever before, regardless of the digital device implemented, and sharing those pictures via email and on the computer and bypassing prints almost entirely.

Roger

[Will2]

This is strange.

Yes, small independent camera shops are disapearing, but here in Dallas, we have Wolf Cameras on every corner. I mean there are at least 5 within easy driving distance plus a "pro-super store" version that carries harder to find items.

When I talk to them, most say they are doing great with a resurgence of interest in Digital SLRs and all the soccer mom's buying them up. Several have told me that they think they weathered the interest in personal photo printers and have found many people coming back for the better quality prints they offer.

Now, try to find film at any of these stores and you'll have very little selection. There is a small shop here called "Film Depot" which caters to students and stocks a great selection of 35mm and 120 film. They charge more than B&H but I still try to use them whenever possible to support the store. I've tried to convince them to carry Super 8 & 16mm movie film but not very successfully yet. I have a feeling they won't be here within 2 years or so.

But, in all, my impression is that even though the film based photo market is dying on the vine, people are shooting more pictures than ever before, regardless of the digital device implemented, and sharing those pictures via email and on the computer and bypassing prints almost entirely.

In my experience Roger is right about people shooting more than ever before, but there's also this phenomenon of scrap booking where women get a chance to be artzy and cut up prints with "acid-free" paper and make pretty little books. It's slowing a little, but there are plenty of ladies doing book after book for every occasion and have an obsession with quality that I find remarkable. People around here are certainly printing photos professionally, but perhaps more selectively.

[jpolzfuss]

Hi,

the number of camera stores is dwindling in Germany as well. The reason is quite simple: Most users have switched to digital cameras (that are cheaper when bought at electronic store-chains). As a side-effect they don't need any accessories any more (no tripods as the cameras do have a "anti shake"-feature, no filters as all effects can be emulated in post with some software, ... ). And of course you'll upload your pics via the internet and get them returned via "snail mail" or ready for pick-up at your local drug-store/supermarket/whatever. As a result the only things left to sell for the classic camera-stores are photo albums. (That is if they don't concentrate on the remaining "analogue" photographers.)

Jörg

[downix]

@Will2

Whenever you go into those Wolf cameras, keep an eye out for a short woman named Cheri. If you see her, tell her Nate from 198 says hi. 8)