Bright Frames on Old 8mm film

[son-of-bubba]

Hi folks,

I transfer old 8mm film for families. I'm hoping to benefit from your collective experience.

I have found that the first frame when a new shot begins is a bit brighter than the rest of that shot. Sometimes much brighter. I have checked the film directly and it seems to be there, not in my set-up.

Any idea why this occurs ?
For those who transfer film can it be eliminated or reduced ?

I use a Workprinter XP (upgraded) with a Sony TRV900 on a Mac.

Thanks in advance.

Pat De Marco

[Angus]

If its on the film, some cheaper cameras (or worn cameras) didn't always close the shutter completely. So there is a chance that the first frame or two of every shot might be over-exposed. Another alternative is that the shutter blade is out of alignment slightly or bent, again causing the same problem. You would only notice this at the end/beginning of shots because the "extra" light gets in when the camera is not running.

[jpolzfuss]

I have found that the first frame when a new shot begins is a bit brighter than the rest of that shot. Sometimes much brighter. I have checked the film directly and it seems to be there, not in my set-up.

Any idea why this occurs ?

That's because the film was on "daylight reels". Hence the first decimeters got exposed to direct sunlight while (un)loading the film. The same happens when using any cartridge based system (e.g. Super8, Single8 or Kodak's carts for Double8/16mm). But on a cartridge based system this effect would only occur for a few frames* while it's a several decimeters when using reels. BTW: The first decimeters are normally removed in the lab as they will be completely white before the white slowly dissolves into a visible image.

Jörg

* = When using Super8/Single8-sound carts you do have two gates where the film gets exposed when (un)loading. Hence the effect would affect more frames on films with live-sound.

[MovieStuff]

I have found that the first frame when a new shot begins is a bit brighter than the rest of that shot. Sometimes much brighter.

The reason is simple: Some cameras get up to speed immediately but some take a bit of time to get up to speed. On cameras that "ramp up" to speed, the first frame is simply exposed for a longer time than the frames that follow. You may not hear the cameras ramping up but it happens and the amount of time it takes can dramatically alter the exposure of the first frame of each new take.

Roger

[Angus]

Yep, Roger's idea is also a definate possibility.

[son-of-bubba]

Thanks Guys. Now, the 64k question.

Can anything be done to reduce the effect of these bright frames during Transfer ?

Right now I am taking them out one-by-one in the editor - at least the REALLY bright ones. It is quite tedious.

Thanks.

Pat De Marco

[brightlight]

Call me crazy, but I like that look of the film "flshing" into exposure at the start of the film, or when the camera switches locations. When editing video, I sometimes try to duplicate that look, but it just ends up looking cheesy and forced. To me, it's just another quality of 8mm/Super 8 film.

[son-of-bubba]

Brightlight,

Sure - I can see your point with well shot footage.

However, with much of this old 8mm family film there will be a series of 1-5 second shots all opening with a flash. It becomes more like going to fireworks than watching a movie

Pat

[christoph]

if the first frame is very bright, then angus explanation is likely the cause..
if it's only slightly brighter then the others, then roger's point kicks in..
jörg seems to have missread the question ;)

the easiest way to fix it is to cut it out on your computer, this can help to make the cuts less jumpy too.
if you have a lot and lot of those, you could start with advanced video processing that automates this. avisynth would be a place to start.

++ c.

[son-of-bubba]

Thanks Christoph,

Cutting out the bright frames is what I am doing now.
I will check-out avisynth though I do not believe it is Mac compatible.

Any ideas what I can do on a MAC ?

Pat De Marco