New Motor driven Krasnogorsk K3 - Its here!

[mattias]

Really? You don't say?!!!*??

well, you didn't so somebody had to. :-)

How are you going to film a TV if you don't have something similar to an Arri Phase shift device or an Aaton Atelen?

well, phase shifting would indeed be nice.

I'm unconvinced by how well it would perform under fluorescents

oh, i wouldn't know. i was commenting on the conceptual level. if it's not stable enough that is a problem for sure.

I'm pretty sure that a non-sync motor with more running speeds would be a more marketable proposition.

but isn't crystal sync the easiest way to set the speed of a motor these days? would the motor be much cheaper with some other means of controlling speed? i can't see how the crystal circuit itself adds that much cost to this unit.

/matt

[Blue Audio Visual]

PLL circuitry has a limiting factor called the loop filter bandwith which needs to be narrow for precision and wide for a large speed span so it's an obvious problem of give and take. We haven't verified the camera at 48fps yet as we've been focusing on getting the kit through the prototype stage.

As far as the designer is concerned the two goals of a wide range of speeds and acceptably accurate crystal-sync would currently seem to be mutually incompatible.

[ncsproducts]

Gee, I think the 4 AA battery feature is the nicest thing about it!

Running the K-3 requires about 0.5 amp motor current at 12V. That's 6W, or about 1.25 amp current draw from a 6V pack (given that the conversion is not 100% efficient). You can draw 1.25 amps from a AA battery pack for at least 15 minutes (500' of film is only 15 minutes of filming).

As far as Super 16mm goes, when you have the camera open you can stick in a super 16mm gate.

Regarding the footage, it looks like that particular K-3 has got a wacky gate weave/registration problem. The image is dancing left and right, with a little bit of up and down.

As far as the unstable shutter bar goes, that might be cause by jitter in the camera speed. That can be a problem. It is not sufficient just to run the camera at exactly 25.00 fps, if the shutter 'twitches' around (when viewed with a strobe light), that is not good--causes flicker.

I can't tell for sure, but there might be a flicker in the sky (or, it could be a compression artifact of some kind).

I would agree that having more then one speed would be much better, and fairly trivial to add. Many of the 'features' are not really features. I mean, if it doesn't have an inching knob, then you must have automatic shutter parking.

[mattias]

And this 24Watt comes from supposedly???

i'm not very familiar with batteries but a google search told me that a ni-cd battery provides 5 amps, which would mean 6w at 1.2v, which would mean 24w if you have 4. they only store around 1ah though so at that rate you only get 12 minutes of running time, but then again that's 4 rolls of film which can be plenty.

/matt

[dsl15746]

And this 24Watt comes from supposedly???

The power supply can deliver up to 24W - this current will be drawn from the battery pack. Of cause the controller doesn't need 24W to drive the motor nor the electronics it self. It has been over dimentioned many times, to make sure that it can accomodate what ever features we would like to add, which might require more power such as higher speeds etc.

When we first developed the camera we used Li-Ion power packs (3.7V) but moved away from this solution as high power rechargeable batteries performs almost just as well and are easier to get a hold of - and cheaper as well. And as mentioned before on a freshly charged LR6/AA battery pack you can get approx. 5 rools of 100feet film and what's the problem of bringing an additional 4 LR6/AA batteries instead of breaking your back with a car accumulator and bulky XLR plugs.

Best regards
Lasse Madsen
Electro Logic I/S

[dsl15746]

The price is certainly right, although I agree with Mattias. You need switchable frame rates on the camera.

I'm also extremely concerned about the power supply - 4 x AA batteries probably won't cut it. I'd prefer to see an off-camera rechargeable pack so that I don't have to worry about replacing batteries in the middle of a reel. I need something that's got enough power that I can charge it overnight and not think about it while shooting a few hundred feet the next day.

As mentioned on the website 4 AA/LR6 batteries will give you approx 5 rolls of 100feet film - what's the problem in carrying additional 4 light weight LR6/AA batteries that you can have in your pocket insted of a bulky accumulator that requires a trolley?

[richard p. t.]

I think this is a great product offering, especially for the price. Naturally enough, many who opt to shoot with a k3 are very price limited, so keeping the cost low rather than making the device all things to all people is very important in my opinion. This makes for a great low cost production option. well done and good luck with it. yes, I would consider buying one.

[dsl15746]

My last post was a feeble attempt at humour combined with the (possibly) sensible suggestion that a 12v/4-pin XLR power supply would/might be better.

The reason why we choose against XLR is that it's simply a too bulky connector that would add additional size/weight to the product and sorry for saying it but more people can find LR6/AA batteries and install them in a standard battery compartment than using a specially made XLR battery pack that you cant get anywhere. What are you going to do if you run out of power then? find a wall socket and start charging for six hours or run the nearest gas station or wal-mart and purchase more batteries?

Best regards
Lasse Madsen

[dsl15746]

How are you going to film a TV if you don't have something similar to an Arri Phase shift device or an Aaton Atelen?

- well, phase shifting would indeed be nice.

Phase shifting is possible through the USB connection as well.

I'm pretty sure that a non-sync motor with more running speeds would be a more marketable proposition.

-but isn't crystal sync the easiest way to set the speed of a motor these days? would the motor be much cheaper with some other means of controlling speed? i can't see how the crystal circuit itself adds that much cost to this unit.

The additional cost of making a motor controller PLL driven is minimal we are talking about a can of coke kind of money on component level.

What we wanted to acchive was an easy to install solution that didn't require drilling or soldering but that still provides all the features that you would expect from a camera.

We didn't want to add any bulky extra's outside the camera than necessary that's why we choose USB for doing all the trimming and setting of speed's etc. I understand that it's not easy to run around with a Laptop in the field but bear in mind that a PDA or a SmartPhone with USB would properly do fine as well.

We didn't add extra speed switches, phase adjust potentiometers or any of the other bell's & whitsles that we have simply because we didn't have any where to put them.

Bart is misunderstanding the concept our controller as its stability is actually somewhat comparable to an Arriflex synchronized solution what you need to remember is that if your camera is old and has never been lubricated etc. the controller will have more difficulty maintaing the stability to the fourth digit after the comma but in our setup we've actually measured excellent performance so far.

Best regards
Lasse Madsen

[Will2]

...or run the nearest gas station or wal-mart and purchase more batteries?

There are Wal-Marts in Denmark? I'm so sorry...

I guess it's pretty amazing that only 4 AA batteries could give you 5 rolls... I know my Scoopic lasts about 7 or 8 with it's internal battery.

[Blue Audio Visual]

Phase shifting is possible through the USB connection as well....
...its stability is actually somewhat comparable to an Arriflex synchronized solution what you need to remember is that if your camera is old and has never been lubricated etc. the controller will have more difficulty maintaing the stability to the fourth digit after the comma but in our setup we've actually measured excellent performance so far.

I'm just curious as to why, if the motor has a phase shift ability, you chose to upload footage of a TV screen showing a shutter bar? Wouldn't it be better to show off what it can do in all its glory? - A TV shot without the shutter bar, some lip-sync, something obviously shot under fluorescents etc...

[dsl15746]

I'm just curious as to why, if the motor has a phase shift ability, you chose to upload footage of a TV screen showing a shutter bar? Wouldn't it be better to show off what it can do in all its glory? - A TV shot without the shutter bar, some lip-sync, something obviously shot under fluorescents etc...

As mentioned before we are currently in the prototype stage with this product and there's alot of features that we haven't yet implemented this is one of them. Phase shifting is simply a matter of telling the microcontroller to advance the phase of the reference signal to the PLL circuitry against the incomming motor signal.

Nearly all features that I've discussed requires firmware changes not hardware changes (Phase Shifting is a firmware add-on) We expect to launch the product with all the basic functions and add these extra's free of charge through our webpage. Any one with a PC and a USB plug can update their camera with our latest firmware in an easy fashion.

Regarding the clip on our webpage, we have a problem with our webprovider that inhibits us from uploading larger files than 50MB eventhough we have 500MB space available and untill this is solved we can only show small clips in "poor" quality due to these size constraints.

Best regards

[chachi]

I have to be honest here, I would be happy with a cheap, variable wild motor on my K-3.
This kit would be great, but the price for ME iis a little over the top. Not that it's not worth it for others, but thats a bit steep for me.

[reflex]

I have to be honest here, I would be happy with a cheap, variable wild motor on my K-3.

I second this. I would also consider a cheaper variable speed motor version without crystal sync. In fact, a version like this which runs at more-or-less constant speed (much like the Canon 814 XL-S) would be almost as useful to me.

It's not like anyone is going to be able to shoot crystal-sync'd dialog with a K-3, anyway.

As mentioned on the website 4 AA/LR6 batteries will give you approx 5 rolls of 100feet film - what's the problem in carrying additional 4 light weight LR6/AA batteries that you can have in your pocket insted of a bulky accumulator that requires a trolley?

I don't have a problem with it, except that I'll either need to use brand new high quality batteries every time I start shooting, or come up with a system to mark how many reels I've shot with the batteries in the camera.

I absolutely don't want to get halfway through a shot and have the batteries die.

[cubdukat]

I just got a chance to look at the Quicktime movie of this baby in action. I don't think I've ever seen any footage from a K-3 that looked that clear, that sharp.

I am SO getting one of those cameras when they're available!