Kodak XL-55 camera plagued with broken main drive gears

[Muckymuck]

Part of the fun of using the manual aperture of the M2, M12 and M22 is the fact that you sometimes get an unusual look to your film. I remember my fiancees efforts with an M12 using Ektachrome 64T where she must have under-exposed it in very bright conditions which gave an extremely saturated effect (sadly we don't know how under-exposed it was, hence my question on another thread about how the stock looks at 1/3 and 2/3 under!)

[super-8-epiphany]

yup...I used to experiment that way with the manual settings on my Nikon F3 still camera...darn thing has been collecting dust now for at least 10 years, in the closet

[super-8-epiphany]

here is the culprit in these otherwise nice little Kodak XL-55 cameras, I just THREW AWAY 4 of these cameras on Monday, in the trash- due to broken gears- the gear is actually a double gear- it has 2 rows of teeth, one on a smaller diameter behind the wide row of teeth seen on the front side- the problem would be, getting a good gear off without breaking it, to make a mold of it in modeling clay, then pour/form a new gear from Devcon or some other metal-imbedded high-strength epoxy- the other gears it meshes to are equally fragile, I broke a few of those while disassembling these cameras

this is a real shame, had they put aluminum or tin gears in these cameras, they'd last forever

[jaxshooter]

This brought back memories.I got one of these things for Christmas when I was 12,back in 1972.Learned the basics with this camera.Shot alot of sports.The last thing I shot with it was the Rolling Stones concert in 1975.It jammed up the first 15 feet and never ran again.So I got 2 and a half years use out of it and must've shot a couple of hundred carts in it.

Why bother putting that much work in it?They go on ebay anywhere from 5 to 15 bucks.Just replace 'em.

[super8man]

Just saw some fantastically crisp and detailed footage shot with these binocular cameras from about 1972 ( the new cars on the train scene had pre-1974 bumpers). Great color, resolution, stability, and sharpness. There is no doubt about it - Kodachrome's formula back in the early 70's was incredible...a far cry from what it died out as in 2000-ish...and these old cameras did very well considering the lack of big time electronics we all rely upon now...

How do I know the footage was shot with that camera? Well, the guy filmed himself in the truck mirror while panning...great stuff. A real glimpse as to how it used to be back in the day...when super 8 was king! Also, a real common accident was to hold the camera upside down or on its side...when that happens, you can almost guarantee it was a Kodak binocular camera...I've thrown out some nice samples of these cameras myself. Pity really. Point and shoot was pretty darn good for super 8.

Best,
Mike

[Jim Carlile]

... the problem would be, getting a good gear off without breaking it, to make a mold of it in modeling clay, then pour/form a new gear from Devcon or some other metal-imbedded high-strength epoxy- the other gears it meshes to are equally fragile, I broke a few of those while disassembling these cameras

this is a real shame, had they put aluminum or tin gears in these cameras, they'd last forever

It's not that difficult:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/bpatto/g ... rings.html

Check out the assortment of spur gears half way down the page. And there are more where that came from-- replacement can be done without too much difficulty. But you should stick with plastic on plastic.

Here's another example, one of many:

http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/gd.cfm

You don't need to make your own gears!

[super-8-epiphany]

... the problem would be, getting a good gear off without breaking it, to make a mold of it in modeling clay, then pour/form a new gear from Devcon or some other metal-imbedded high-strength epoxy- the other gears it meshes to are equally fragile, I broke a few of those while disassembling these cameras

this is a real shame, had they put aluminum or tin gears in these cameras, they'd last forever

It's not that difficult:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/bpatto/g ... rings.html

Check out the assortment of spur gears half way down the page. And there are more where that came from-- replacement can be done without too much difficulty. But you should stick with plastic on plastic.

Here's another example, one of many:

http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/gd.cfm

You don't need to make your own gears!

Keep in mind, one has to find a working, good camera, with a good gear- and and NOT USE IT- disassemble it carefully first, just to get the gear off, and measure it and count the teeth and check diameter/shaft size.

I appreciate the links to gears, but this is a DOUBLE gear- it has 2 rows of teeth on it, and one row has a smaller diameter than the other row- that broken gear has another set of teeth behind it, that are also broken.

By what I can tell, all the gears on that link pages you put up, are single row.

Saying this is "not difficult" is stretching things a bit- just trying to pry that gear off, causes those black gears around it to chip and fall apart as well. The camera is also very difficult to disassemble to that point to even see the gear- a few aluminum panels that are glued on, must be pried off/removed to expose screws for disassembly, that are otherwise hidden.

But it would make an interesting project.

[super-8-epiphany]

Why bother putting that much work in it?They go on ebay anywhere from 5 to 15 bucks.Just replace 'em.

Nada- already tried that- it doesn't work- I bought 5 of these cameras from Ebay for $10 or less each, some of them were $1- of the entire lot, only ONE worked- and it broke in 2 minutes.

Better to buy one good one cosmetically, take it apart, and rebuild it by replacing all the drive gears in question, with modern aftermarket gears- or making a gear that cannot be bought. And also lube all the gears with a sythetic grease before reassembly. The auto-zoom function puts a lot of strain on those gears, so perhaps it would be wise to not use it afterwards as well.

The bottom line (as usual) is, I already scored a Canon XL-1014 for only $73 that needed a battery pack lid- which I repaired- so why bother with the XL-55 deal. I did save ONE complete XL-55 just in case I want to fix one up. As you stated I can always get more parts camera XL-55's on Ebay. The 4 disassembled XL's I had, went out with Monday's trash.

a bad scene actually, the lens assembly on those XL's is actually high quality and very well made

[clivetobin]

But.... that doesn't happen with the original M-2, M-4, and M-6 cameras. These excellent units look like bricks and they last forever.

I dunno about the M-6, but most of the M-4s I have seen have an electric eye circuit that has been totally eaten by battery leakage.

The mercury cell (which has since been banned from sale) is hidden in a sliding carrier that is hidden above the drive batteries. Most users never read the instructions and don't realize it is there. When the cell dies and the footage starts coming out 6 stops overexposed they toss the camera in a drawer, then the chemicals start leaking out and doing their worst.

I used to have an XL-33 which was my all time favorite for silent filming, no focusing and you could even film on Kodachrome inside a department store with available lighting. A shame that probably none of them work any more owing to the "cheese gear" syndrome.

[Jim Carlile]

But.... that doesn't happen with the original M-2, M-4, and M-6 cameras. These excellent units look like bricks and they last forever.

I dunno about the M-6, but most of the M-4s I have seen have an electric eye circuit that has been totally eaten by battery leakage.

The mercury cell (which has since been banned from sale) is hidden in a sliding carrier that is hidden above the drive batteries. Most users never read the instructions and don't realize it is there. When the cell dies and the footage starts coming out 6 stops overexposed they toss the camera in a drawer, then the chemicals start leaking out and doing their worst.

Right-- that battery's a pain-- I must have been lucky, the M-4 I found years ago was empty! It works fine, nice steady images, not a bad lens at all for what was a $15 camera 40 years ago...

I imagine rebuilding these M cameras is about on the level of trying to home-process Kodachrome...

[marc]

Has anyone tried to lube the gears while they are still intact? May be the old dried up lube puts too much stress on the gears.

[clivetobin]

Has anyone tried to lube the gears while they are still intact? May be the old dried up lube puts too much stress on the gears.

No, the problem is that some genius at Kodak decided to use a new unproven rubbery plastic (or was it plasticy rubber) material for the gear on the motor shaft to make it quieter running.

With age / humidity / polluted air / whatever the material decomposes into powder or falls apart into small chunks. This same stuff was used for the slide-change linkage from the solenoid on certain models of the Kodak Carousel slide projectors. Same problem: it just falls apart and the machine no longer works.

The M-2 and M-4 still work because this gear was made of Nylon or Delrin instead and is still intact after 40 years use or storage, though it is a little noisier running than the "cheese gears" models would be if they still ran.