Telecine correction possibilities?

[Clapton Pond]

I did a shoot recently with a 'friend' using E64T - 3 carts on his Bolex Macrozoom rectangular space-age camera and 1 on my Bauer S209 XL. Bright sunshine, girl in a white dress, cliffs, seaside etc.

He reckoned the Bolex was automatic and would cope with the stock, no problem. He was wrong. It came out badly over exposed, I don't know by how many stops, and has a blue tinge (the filter on the wrong setting). Meanwhile, the Bauer reel looks really nice.

Is there anything that can be done in telecine to make the image denser, and maybe with a corrective filter too, to sort out the blueness? I'm going to edit in Final Cut Pro, so if not, is there anything that can be done in software instead?

I also shot a roll of K25 regular 8mm on a different day in overcast conditions that I haven't had processed yet - the idea is it will be used in the same film (a music clip), so I'd like to match it up as far as possible (maybe not very far in this case...) - so I was wondering if I should get the lab to push it in processing... any ideas gratefully received.

cheers

ian

[Will2]

Someone who knows their way around a decent color corrector could help tremendously on the color issue.

As far as the over exposure on a reversal film, I've actually been amazed at what could be pulled out of bad exposures, but always be prepared for the worst.

Can you have it telecined on a Rank with a Da Vinci (or equivalent) color corrector? I'm sure there are some really good facilities in Europe, in the U.S. I'd recommend FSFT in Seattle.

I would send all the film to one place and tell them you want it to work together as much as possible; maybe they can have the other correctly exposed film kind of "meet it in the middle" and get it all to look like it was the same stock.

http://www.fsft.com/

[ekoe]

If it were neg stock, you'd have more versatility. But with reversal stock like 64T, you have very little latitude.
Your friend's Bolex would have rated the 64T as 40T, so it is 2/3 stop overexposed. But, I think you're actually you're about 1 1/3 stops overexposed because, in addition to the camera rating the 64T as 40T, the filter was not in place. It sounds like his correction filter is stuck or has fallen out of position. You should alert him to both of these conditions, so he doesn't make the same mistake again.
As far as telecine correction... I think it would be more appropriate to just reshoot if possible. I don't think there is enough information on the film due to the overexposure, and then there is the color correction issue. There are many possibilities with modern telecine. Our boys in Soho can work some real magic, but at a certain point it is better to just reshoot. If you'd like, I can rent you a trustworthy camera. I'd love to hear more about the project.

[svejk]

According to this page, the Bolex Macrozooms should detect E64T correctly (assuming you have the filter in place) rather than rate it as 40T. Which is correct?

Of course, his exposure meter batteries may have been up the spout as well. The Bolex 150/155/160 take now unavailable 1.35V mercury batteries that require a variety of work-arounds. [/url]

[Clapton Pond]

Thanks for all the feedback chaps...

Someone who knows their way around a decent color corrector could help tremendously on the color issue.

Can you have it telecined on a Rank with a Da Vinci (or equivalent) color corrector? I'm sure there are some really good facilities in Europe, in the U.S. I'd recommend FSFT in Seattle.
http://www.fsft.com/

I'll have to find out - does anyone know of a good place in London? This is a budget operation, however... though on second thoughts it might actually be worth sending it to America, given the dollar rate.

As far as telecine correction... I think it would be more appropriate to just reshoot if possible. I don't think there is enough information on the film due to the overexposure, and then there is the color correction issue. There are many possibilities with modern telecine. Our boys in Soho can work some real magic, but at a certain point it is better to just reshoot.

Unfortunately, summer in England only lasted a day and a half this year, and that was when we filmed - we'd probably have to wait for next July...

According to this page , the Bolex Macrozooms should detect E64T correctly (assuming you have the filter in place) rather than rate it as 40T. Which is correct?

Of course, his exposure meter batteries may have been up the spout as well. The Bolex 150/155/160 take now unavailable 1.35V mercury batteries that require a variety of work-arounds.

Hmm, that's interesting... it really should have been ok then. And the Bolex Collector site concurs. In which case, the exposure meter theory seems to me to be the more likely explanation, as I don't think the filter omission would have put things so far out of whack. We didn't test it against a separate meter, unfortunately.

cheers

ian

[svejk]

You can also convert the 150/155 to manual exposure using this ingenious modification, though I haven't summoned up the courage to dismantle my Bolex just yet (stop laughing at the back, there).

There is a Wein Cell zinc air battery that should do the job in the exposure meter, though it does have a limited lifespan. Other replacements give the wrong voltage, or you can buy a rather expensive adaptor.

[ekoe]

I got the info on the Bolex rating from the Kodak site: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/s8mm/ ... .8.6&lc=en

For a transfer, you can try Stanley Productions on Wardour Street in Soho, London. They have the more affordable MWA telecine system. They might also offer colour grading allowing you to sit-in on the transfer. In addition, there is The Widescreen Centre near Baker Street Tube station. Jake Astbury does the transfers there. You're right about the exchange rate... You'd get more for your money, but you won't be able to sit-in on the session.

Maybe you can make the overexposure a look.

[videoguy326]

Hi
I have a Bauer S209Xl as well. Glad to hear the 64T came out fine through it. Just out of curiosity, do you think the Bauer read the 64T as 40 asa?

[Nigel]

FSFT is a great place...At times. However, a good colorist is going to serve you better than the machine that the geeks all gather around.

You will find great results around the world if you are willing to do the leg work of telling the colorist what you want.

After all isn't that what a good DP should do??

Good Luck
PS--I've never been a big FSFT fan for reasons that go back about 5 years and have never been fully addressed by both FSFT or me.

[Chris-B]

There is Todd-AO in Camden.

The 50+ cartridges we've had developed and telecined by them last year were all good, with a very fast turn around too.

See - http://www.todd-ao.co.uk/super8mm.htm

Good luck!
Chris.

[Clapton Pond]

I have a Bauer S209Xl as well. Glad to hear the 64T came out fine through it. Just out of curiosity, do you think the Bauer read the 64T as 40 asa?

To be frank, I've no idea - I just put the film in and shot it, and it looks pretty much the way I hoped it would look. I hadn't really found any definitive info on the net either way about whether it would be ok or not, so in the end just decided to have a go, and shoot one of the cartridges on the Bauer as we thought the Bolex was the safe bet of the two...

I'm not a film professional though, so can't really be as analytical as one - I know saying it looks 'nice' isn't the correct technical term, but it does. (I've only put it through the projector once though, and I'll wait till after it's telecined before doing so again.)

With regard to telecine houses in London - thanks for the suggestions. I've used the Widescreen Centre before and was reasonably happy with the transfer apart from the fact that the first films we gave them weren't cleaned prior to telecine, which I would've thought should be standard practice. The second lot was fine too, but I'm not sure how experienced they would be in terms of colour and exposure correction. And they could do with a bit of work on their people skills too in that place...

Todd AO and Stanley look good, but maybe a bit pricey for us - it's always a bad sign when the prices aren't on the website...! (I know, you get what you pay for etc. etc.) Don't think Todd AO do regular 8mm either, so I'll have to do some more scouting around.

cheers

ian

[fred621962]

Hi Clapton,

Supposing you intend to visit Paris in the next weeks (Xmas shopping or else, who knows?), please put a roll or two in your pocket and have a walk to my shop, I would be glad to try your overexposed rolls with my telecines. MP if you want mode details.