I have a student who is wanting to use 500 in our AZ814...I haven't been able to find anything in the literature that says she can't. When we ran a cartridge through, it sounded really odd...
Normal?
500 in a Canon Auto Zoom 814
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
-
The Daywood
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:29 pm
- Contact:
-
The Daywood
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:29 pm
- Contact:
They are using an external light meter with the correct settings...
This is the first semester we have used these cameras for the students. Is there some internal settings which are changing the f-stops on the camera based on the speed of the film? We have told them to set the f-stop based on the light meter.
Before this semester they shot 16mm on a Filmo-70 and then on ARRI 16SRI's...One of the professors has Super 8 experience, but not on this camera so it is still a learning curve for us. We went with the 814 because of the manual settings and the fact that it is built like a tank compared to the 310 or 514 or even some of the other Canon 8's...
Thanks for the help :!:
This is the first semester we have used these cameras for the students. Is there some internal settings which are changing the f-stops on the camera based on the speed of the film? We have told them to set the f-stop based on the light meter.
Before this semester they shot 16mm on a Filmo-70 and then on ARRI 16SRI's...One of the professors has Super 8 experience, but not on this camera so it is still a learning curve for us. We went with the 814 because of the manual settings and the fact that it is built like a tank compared to the 310 or 514 or even some of the other Canon 8's...
Thanks for the help :!:
D.W.
-
Will2
- Senior member
- Posts: 1983
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:18 am
- Real name: Will Montgomery
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Contact:
If you are used to using reversal film in Super 8 the 500T negative will sound different because the film is a little thinner. Should be ok, but I'd suggest shooting a test reel.
I just shot some Vision2 500T with an AutoZoom Canon 814 and found to my amazement that the metering was not that far off when I checked it against my external meter.
Guessing that it exposes for 400T or so which might actually be ok since you're dealing with negative stock with much more latitude.
There are hours and hours of discussions on notches and exposure on this forum so try a search and you might find more info on it.
I just shot some Vision2 500T with an AutoZoom Canon 814 and found to my amazement that the metering was not that far off when I checked it against my external meter.
Guessing that it exposes for 400T or so which might actually be ok since you're dealing with negative stock with much more latitude.
There are hours and hours of discussions on notches and exposure on this forum so try a search and you might find more info on it.
-
MIKI-814
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:53 pm
- Real name: Miguel
- Location: BILBAO, Basque Country, EU
- Contact:
If you'd want I could send you scanned owners manual for the 814AutozoomElectronic, which is not exactly the 814Autozoom but could help.The Daywood wrote:They are using an external light meter with the correct settings...
This is the first semester we have used these cameras for the students. Is there some internal settings which are changing the f-stops on the camera based on the speed of the film? We have told them to set the f-stop based on the light meter.
Before this semester they shot 16mm on a Filmo-70 and then on ARRI 16SRI's...One of the professors has Super 8 experience, but not on this camera so it is still a learning curve for us. We went with the 814 because of the manual settings and the fact that it is built like a tank compared to the 310 or 514 or even some of the other Canon 8's...
Thanks for the help :!:
If I understand correctly your question: The 814AE has a manual exposure knob to select the f-stop you desire. (Be careful with this knob because is the most delicated point of this camera... lots of posts on it in the forum)
-
The Daywood
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:29 pm
- Contact:
-
morales72
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:54 am
- Real name: Fernando Gundin
- Location: United Kingdom
- Contact:
AFAIK 500T is notched as 320T so you are overexposing 1/3 stop aprox., which is good. There is another post saying that Kodak would reformulate it to be used as real 500T.MIKI-814 wrote:As far as I know, the 814 doesn't expose correctly ASA 500, does it?
Does anybody know how would this stock be measured automatically in an 814AE?
With the AZ the maximum you'll get is 250T, so if you want the 500T you have to manually close 1 stop. The latter model, the 814AZe has a maximum of 400T, but being the cart notched as 320T, so in this case you should close 1/3 stop to get the right exposure. Anyway, 1/3 overexposure sure looks awesome.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Morales.
-
The Daywood
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:29 pm
- Contact:
Aren't the current Vision stocks missing the Tungsten notch?Will2 wrote:Guessing that it exposes for 400T or so which might actually be ok since you're dealing with negative stock with much more latitude.
I believe they don't trigger the internal filter so you need to manually trigger it or use an external.
I have an 814 Auto Zoom electronic & I'm assuming it will read the 500T as 250D. I will use an external 85 so the camera meter will account for that. I'll be checking with an external spot meter anyway.
i think 250 is probably a good rating for the 500 as Kodak notched the 200 as 100 as they know it looks best with a stop extra light.
-
mattias
- Posts: 8356
- Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 1:31 pm
- Location: Gubbängen, Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
no, they did not notch it like that because it looks better with an extra stop, because it looks even better a third over, which it would be rated as with the notch. some kind of proof is that the notching on exr surveillance was the same and that definitely didn't handle a full stop as well as the vision 2. what is the reason then? i've no idea.
/matt
/matt
-
morales72
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:54 am
- Real name: Fernando Gundin
- Location: United Kingdom
- Contact:
That seems more like a need of overhauling, servicing, oiling. 500T uses the same standard Kodak cart as the other stocks.The Daywood wrote:Thanks for the help...
I think it was more the sound she was hearing, and not about the metering, but it is good to know!!!
Thanks again, and I'll be back....
Cheers,
Morales.
PS: De nada, Miki
-
Jim Carlile
- Posts: 927
- Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:59 pm
- Location: Los Angeles
- Contact:
My understanding is that Kodak no longer notches their tungsten negative stocks because they feel that users prefer an external 85 filter.
There are problems with these stocks and automatic metering.
If the cartridges are notchless, they will set the camera's meter to the lower "daylight" ASA of whatever speed notch indice they are cut for. This is the case for all "advanced" SMPTE cameras, and only these cameras will read ASA 500, anyway (actually, they will read it at ASA 400, because there's no ASA 500 speed notch.)
That-- in itself-- will automatically overexpose the film 2/3 of a stop, external filter or no external filter. That's set, and it's also part of Kodak's belief that overexposure is a good thing (sorry mattias :?
So, in the case of 500T, the "low" daylight ASA of this ASA 400 speed notch indice-- actuated by the notchless cartridge-- will be about 250. That's effective only.
All this means is that the camera is treating it as if it's an ASA 250 film-- but remember, it's really ASA 500. So, the film is being overexposed by almost one full f/stop.
With an external 85, the film will again be effectively rated at 2/3 of an f/stop lower--- which is already almost one full stop lower than the film's actual tungsten ASA. That's because the filter will reduce the light by an additional 2/3 of a stop.
In a practical sense, what this means is that even though the film is rated at ASA 500T for low light use, your effective ASA rating will be quite a bit lower.
If you want a more sensitive film stock, the solution is to cut a filter notch in the cartridge, and then use the internal 85 filter. This will give you an automatic extra 2/3 of a stop bump-up-- which is big deal in low light situations, because 2/3 of a stop is almost double the light.
Why is this? Because the filter notch will release the camera's filter pin, which will set the meter to ASA 400 (presuming your camera will read this high.)
But:
My understanding is that the Canon 814 silent cameras will only read up to ASA 250 tungsten, which is one stop overexposed from ASA 500T, with a filter notch. Without a notch, it will be 1 2/3 stops-- it will read the film as ASA 160, the lower speed complement of the 250 speed indice-- but only IF you rely upon the automatic meter (it thinks any film speed indice above 250 is still 250, and then with the filter pin pushed in by the notchless cartridge, it sets the meter to 160.)
These various and complicated problems are the reason why most negative users expose their film manually, using the internal exposure meter only as a guide.
If you want to use automatic metering with these films, the best thing to do is to use the newer Nizo or Canon sound cameras-- the big ones. These will read up to ASA 640 films, and will expose 500T properly-- kind of...
There are problems with these stocks and automatic metering.
If the cartridges are notchless, they will set the camera's meter to the lower "daylight" ASA of whatever speed notch indice they are cut for. This is the case for all "advanced" SMPTE cameras, and only these cameras will read ASA 500, anyway (actually, they will read it at ASA 400, because there's no ASA 500 speed notch.)
That-- in itself-- will automatically overexpose the film 2/3 of a stop, external filter or no external filter. That's set, and it's also part of Kodak's belief that overexposure is a good thing (sorry mattias :?
So, in the case of 500T, the "low" daylight ASA of this ASA 400 speed notch indice-- actuated by the notchless cartridge-- will be about 250. That's effective only.
All this means is that the camera is treating it as if it's an ASA 250 film-- but remember, it's really ASA 500. So, the film is being overexposed by almost one full f/stop.
With an external 85, the film will again be effectively rated at 2/3 of an f/stop lower--- which is already almost one full stop lower than the film's actual tungsten ASA. That's because the filter will reduce the light by an additional 2/3 of a stop.
In a practical sense, what this means is that even though the film is rated at ASA 500T for low light use, your effective ASA rating will be quite a bit lower.
If you want a more sensitive film stock, the solution is to cut a filter notch in the cartridge, and then use the internal 85 filter. This will give you an automatic extra 2/3 of a stop bump-up-- which is big deal in low light situations, because 2/3 of a stop is almost double the light.
Why is this? Because the filter notch will release the camera's filter pin, which will set the meter to ASA 400 (presuming your camera will read this high.)
But:
My understanding is that the Canon 814 silent cameras will only read up to ASA 250 tungsten, which is one stop overexposed from ASA 500T, with a filter notch. Without a notch, it will be 1 2/3 stops-- it will read the film as ASA 160, the lower speed complement of the 250 speed indice-- but only IF you rely upon the automatic meter (it thinks any film speed indice above 250 is still 250, and then with the filter pin pushed in by the notchless cartridge, it sets the meter to 160.)
These various and complicated problems are the reason why most negative users expose their film manually, using the internal exposure meter only as a guide.
If you want to use automatic metering with these films, the best thing to do is to use the newer Nizo or Canon sound cameras-- the big ones. These will read up to ASA 640 films, and will expose 500T properly-- kind of...
-
The Daywood
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:29 pm
- Contact:
Let me make sure I am understanding you correctly....Jim Carlile wrote:These various and complicated problems are the reason why most negative users expose their film manually, using the internal exposure meter only as a guide.
The only reason to worry about the notch is if you are shooting on Auto? If you are using an external meter and setting the iris manually, you don't need to pay any attention to the notch?
D.W.