Well just recieved an Ebay Chinon Pacific 12 SMR that I nabbed for a pretty decent price -- not flea market, but decent -- and of course the "works perfect, film tested just yesterday" is as dead as a block of wood when I try it. So far seller hasn't returned my emails. I haven't yet started to open it up to see if I can troubleshoot the problem.
So, even asking questions like "does it run when you put batteries in it and have you run film through it recently" are useless if the seller doesn't tell the truth or just doesn't care what the word "works" means.
Live and Learn.
Ds21z
More Sad Ebay Lessons
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
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David M. Leugers
- Posts: 1632
- Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 12:42 am
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A very disturbing trend in the eBay world, and maybe one of the reasons that sales and prices are way down for film equipment. I have been ripped off a couple of times lately and leaving a negative response is the only thing I could do. Too bad there are scum bags out there. I usually avoid the "don't know anything about it, but I was told it works good but sold as is" stuff. My experience is that you can bet it will be DOA.
David M. Leugers
David M. Leugers
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Technicolor
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:47 pm
- Location: East Sussex, UK
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Hi Ds21z,
I can sympathise with you on the ebay front. I've only ever bought two items from ebay and they've both been dodgy and the seller gave no clear indication of any faults.
The first was a Bauer 107XL which had a dodgy lens, I got a full refund from the seller and got to keep the camera which wasnt so bad!
The second was not so good. It was a Agfa Movexzoom 6 in totally mint condition and with all the original bits and bobs, but the light meter was defective. I sent this back after the seller (at my own expense) said she'd send me a full refund, I havent heard anything since.
hey ho! I'm going to buy all my cameras from private sellers and shops from now on where I can see them for myself. Its the best way.
Also, the Agfa was described as fully working order and the Bauer was described as in great conditon. Perhaps I should have asked the seller about them before bidding.
I can sympathise with you on the ebay front. I've only ever bought two items from ebay and they've both been dodgy and the seller gave no clear indication of any faults.
The first was a Bauer 107XL which had a dodgy lens, I got a full refund from the seller and got to keep the camera which wasnt so bad!
The second was not so good. It was a Agfa Movexzoom 6 in totally mint condition and with all the original bits and bobs, but the light meter was defective. I sent this back after the seller (at my own expense) said she'd send me a full refund, I havent heard anything since.
hey ho! I'm going to buy all my cameras from private sellers and shops from now on where I can see them for myself. Its the best way.
Also, the Agfa was described as fully working order and the Bauer was described as in great conditon. Perhaps I should have asked the seller about them before bidding.
James
Have to say I have had no real problems with eBay. I've bought more cameras than I should and never had any real problems.
Perhaps the only dodgy time was when I got a lot of seven std8mm cameras and the Bolex S1 I was really interested in turned out to be in pretty rough condition...but since I got the lot for less than £2 per camera including post I cannot complain.
Perhaps the only dodgy time was when I got a lot of seven std8mm cameras and the Bolex S1 I was really interested in turned out to be in pretty rough condition...but since I got the lot for less than £2 per camera including post I cannot complain.
It's just my opinion, but DON'T OPEN THE CAMERA!
I would DEFINITELY wait to see what the seller says before cracking the camera open: From the seller's perspective (assuming they're honest), how are they going to know YOU aren't responsible for breaking it!? As a start, by your returning it in the condition in which it arrived, including your not opening it.
Suppose it was your sale: you sell a working camera to someone, and it comes back to you for a full refund because it's not currently working. Oh, but you discover it's been opened. There's suddenly a lot more doubt and wiggle room. Maybe they broke a contact somewhere. Maybe they did more than open it. Who's to say? They AT LEAST opened it, and it was working before. Don't give the seller any easy outs or excuses to burn you! Don't open the camera before you talk to the seller!
AND if it was advertised as "working" but on your reception it isn't, I would DEFINITELY pursue a refund (or compensation) from the seller. No question about it. That CANNOT BE TOLERATED. And if the seller burns you on it, I'd go for compensation through eBay's policy. Advertised as "working" but "actually isn't" is potentially fraud.
I would DEFINITELY wait to see what the seller says before cracking the camera open: From the seller's perspective (assuming they're honest), how are they going to know YOU aren't responsible for breaking it!? As a start, by your returning it in the condition in which it arrived, including your not opening it.
Suppose it was your sale: you sell a working camera to someone, and it comes back to you for a full refund because it's not currently working. Oh, but you discover it's been opened. There's suddenly a lot more doubt and wiggle room. Maybe they broke a contact somewhere. Maybe they did more than open it. Who's to say? They AT LEAST opened it, and it was working before. Don't give the seller any easy outs or excuses to burn you! Don't open the camera before you talk to the seller!
AND if it was advertised as "working" but on your reception it isn't, I would DEFINITELY pursue a refund (or compensation) from the seller. No question about it. That CANNOT BE TOLERATED. And if the seller burns you on it, I'd go for compensation through eBay's policy. Advertised as "working" but "actually isn't" is potentially fraud.
Yeah, ebay is a crap shoot. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I personally have never gotten a working Super 8 camera on e-bay, but the best deal I ever got was a Super 8 sound camera that wasn't that great but it came with 10 rolls of sound film...for about 30 bucks! (he didn't advertise the film hehe). It's deals like that that keep me coming back to ebay...
Anyway, I just sold my Bauer on ebay and it was working perfectly, so somebody got a great deal last week.
Anyway, I just sold my Bauer on ebay and it was working perfectly, so somebody got a great deal last week.
Well, I'll give the seller a couple of days to respond...
Well, I'll give the seller a couple of days to respond before I do anything with the camera. As I said, it looks in great shape, just won't run. Has a battery check feature, and that shows zippola. I checked my batts with a VOM so I know that ok. Guess what irritates me most the assurance from the seller that he put batts in and heard it running and "ran film through it" just recently. Ha!
I kinda understand the bad meter issue because many sellers just put in batts and if they hear the motor run it "perfect working order tested"! Yeah, right. But when the motor won't run at all that is really dodgy dealing, hey?
All I can say is it only ran me about $60.00 with shipping and I have half a notion that I'll be able to fix it on my own once I open it up. I'll give the seller 2 more days to respond then hammer with the "neg" feedback. Then start pulling it apart.
Lately though, seems I've been hitting quite a lot of the shifty types and all I can say is that I won't be spending an serious cash without an escrow on it so I can definitely return it and get my money back.
Cheers,
Ds21z
I kinda understand the bad meter issue because many sellers just put in batts and if they hear the motor run it "perfect working order tested"! Yeah, right. But when the motor won't run at all that is really dodgy dealing, hey?
All I can say is it only ran me about $60.00 with shipping and I have half a notion that I'll be able to fix it on my own once I open it up. I'll give the seller 2 more days to respond then hammer with the "neg" feedback. Then start pulling it apart.
Lately though, seems I've been hitting quite a lot of the shifty types and all I can say is that I won't be spending an serious cash without an escrow on it so I can definitely return it and get my money back.
Cheers,
Ds21z
Well, first of all, good luck with it, whatever you decide.
And you didn’t ask, but I’ll blather anyway:
Based on what you’ve said, I’d wait SEVEN days (does the seller have any current items? could they be on vacation?), and then follow-up with a final, polite letter to the seller explaining that you’ll be pursuing a fraud complaint through eBay unless you hear back within twenty-four hours. And hold out a carrot: Tell them you’re not satisfied and explain why, but that you’re confident that this transaction can still be rescued. If they respond immediately. And if they don’t, pursue a fraud complaint.
You can leave a negative feedback anytime in the, like, next ninety days, so there’s not much of a rush to drop that hammer. And it doesn’t have much of a threat value – none once you’ve left it. If they’ve meant to defraud you, well, it’s already over and leaving a negative feedback gets you nothing but a chance to vent. The much bigger hammer is a fraud complaint AND a chance to stick it in their jacket.
If the camera was clearly and explicitly advertised as working, and you’re SURE it isn’t (perhaps try or borrow new batteries, check you have them inserted correctly – basically, just cover your ass so any stupid mistake isn’t going to be yours), then it sounds like the camera has been significantly misrepresented. If you’ve given the seller a reasonable chance to respond but they haven’t or won’t, then it sounds like you’ve been defrauded. You might be able to get some money from eBay and get to keep the camera. If the seller has other complaints, you may see them suspended.
And whatever does happen with it, then you can still leave a negative feedback afterwards. Maybe it will work out and you can be positive. If not, I’d try a phrase like “Camera significantly misrepresented and seller unresponsive. Fraud complaint filed.†Or something similar. “Fraud complaint†is a red flag, and I’d be very cautious buying from someone that had that in their profile. Which is what you, and we, really want.
And you didn’t ask, but I’ll blather anyway:
Based on what you’ve said, I’d wait SEVEN days (does the seller have any current items? could they be on vacation?), and then follow-up with a final, polite letter to the seller explaining that you’ll be pursuing a fraud complaint through eBay unless you hear back within twenty-four hours. And hold out a carrot: Tell them you’re not satisfied and explain why, but that you’re confident that this transaction can still be rescued. If they respond immediately. And if they don’t, pursue a fraud complaint.
You can leave a negative feedback anytime in the, like, next ninety days, so there’s not much of a rush to drop that hammer. And it doesn’t have much of a threat value – none once you’ve left it. If they’ve meant to defraud you, well, it’s already over and leaving a negative feedback gets you nothing but a chance to vent. The much bigger hammer is a fraud complaint AND a chance to stick it in their jacket.
If the camera was clearly and explicitly advertised as working, and you’re SURE it isn’t (perhaps try or borrow new batteries, check you have them inserted correctly – basically, just cover your ass so any stupid mistake isn’t going to be yours), then it sounds like the camera has been significantly misrepresented. If you’ve given the seller a reasonable chance to respond but they haven’t or won’t, then it sounds like you’ve been defrauded. You might be able to get some money from eBay and get to keep the camera. If the seller has other complaints, you may see them suspended.
And whatever does happen with it, then you can still leave a negative feedback afterwards. Maybe it will work out and you can be positive. If not, I’d try a phrase like “Camera significantly misrepresented and seller unresponsive. Fraud complaint filed.†Or something similar. “Fraud complaint†is a red flag, and I’d be very cautious buying from someone that had that in their profile. Which is what you, and we, really want.
It's a shame you've had a horrible time with this, I guess the thing to watch with ebay is that if it sounds too good to be true....it probably is.
I've been lucky - I recently got a Chinon Autozoom 872 for £20. The seller was very honest and upfront about the condition of it, stating that it was cosmetically good and had been stored for about five years, but that it worked when last used. It came to me in a carry case that smelt a bit nasty, but had a silica gel pack in it, so no damp problems. The only minor issue I had to contend with was that it had been stored with AA batteries in it that had turned rather evil, but thankfully a quick rubdown and shot with an air duster sorted that out.
My first two test films have come back good, although with a hairline scratch from top to bottom of every frame, so I think there might be some rogue dust in there somewhere. Any hints on fixing this?
Don't give up on ebay - there's some wonderful stuff out there. Just make sure you ask loads of questions, and maybe find out what the buyer's return policy is before purchase.
Lee
I've been lucky - I recently got a Chinon Autozoom 872 for £20. The seller was very honest and upfront about the condition of it, stating that it was cosmetically good and had been stored for about five years, but that it worked when last used. It came to me in a carry case that smelt a bit nasty, but had a silica gel pack in it, so no damp problems. The only minor issue I had to contend with was that it had been stored with AA batteries in it that had turned rather evil, but thankfully a quick rubdown and shot with an air duster sorted that out.
My first two test films have come back good, although with a hairline scratch from top to bottom of every frame, so I think there might be some rogue dust in there somewhere. Any hints on fixing this?
Don't give up on ebay - there's some wonderful stuff out there. Just make sure you ask loads of questions, and maybe find out what the buyer's return policy is before purchase.
Lee
I did have one bad experience with eBay but it was as a seller.
I sold a working (genuinely, I'd used it extensively) Canon 318M for a tidy sum. The seller wanted it packed well so it took me an extra few days to get some materials.
Anyway I sent it off wrapped up in bubble wrap and in a box with those packing worms/peanuts filling the empty space. When it arrived he instantly gave me either negative or netural feedback saying that I'd taken too long to mail it and that it was inadequately packed.
Now he didn't want to use it, he instantly relisted it as "working, tested" with a reserve higher than he'd payed for it.
My point in my feedback to him was that it was well enough packed for him to resell it as "working ant tested"!
Can't please some people.
I've bought many working cameras in several formats (8mm, S8, 16mm, 35mm, 120) and very few dud cameras...in all cases the non-working examples were sold by sellers who admitted they weren't sure if the thing worked and bought for a small price.
I think "buyer beware" is the best advice. Check feedback, don't bid a high price on an item from somebody with little feedback. Even the best sellers will get some negative/neutral feedback but it's a good way of assessing if somebody can be trusted.
I sold a working (genuinely, I'd used it extensively) Canon 318M for a tidy sum. The seller wanted it packed well so it took me an extra few days to get some materials.
Anyway I sent it off wrapped up in bubble wrap and in a box with those packing worms/peanuts filling the empty space. When it arrived he instantly gave me either negative or netural feedback saying that I'd taken too long to mail it and that it was inadequately packed.
Now he didn't want to use it, he instantly relisted it as "working, tested" with a reserve higher than he'd payed for it.
My point in my feedback to him was that it was well enough packed for him to resell it as "working ant tested"!
Can't please some people.
I've bought many working cameras in several formats (8mm, S8, 16mm, 35mm, 120) and very few dud cameras...in all cases the non-working examples were sold by sellers who admitted they weren't sure if the thing worked and bought for a small price.
I think "buyer beware" is the best advice. Check feedback, don't bid a high price on an item from somebody with little feedback. Even the best sellers will get some negative/neutral feedback but it's a good way of assessing if somebody can be trusted.
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MovieStuff
- Posts: 6135
- Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 1:07 am
- Real name: Roger Evans
- Location: Kerrville, Texas
- Contact:
Yes, I had a couple of bad experiences on ebay. One was as a seller and one was as a buyer.
As a seller, I was offering a VERY rare pin-registered Nikon Photomic 35mm still camera. The conversion on the camera cost something like $2000 in the early 80s and the camera itself was probably over $600 new. Anyway, I had used it on and off a copy stand for over 20 years and decided to sell it with a "Buy it Now" price of $350. I took photos of every stinkin' square inch of that camera, including the inside where the gate is, to show how impeccably clean it was. The only surface I didn't take a picture of was the bottom where the tripod mount was. Some guy buys it and then demands his money back because, get this, "there are scratches and brassin on the bottom of the camera". Well, duh! Imagine that. A camera almost a quarter of a century old has scratches on the bottom. What a numbnut. And he didn't even make any sort of a demand until he had the camera almost three weeks. He obviously bought the camera for the pin registration and not because it was a Photomic, since Photomics are like flies on ebay for practically nothing. I think he used it to do a pin-registered job of some kind and then tried to scam me into getting his money back. Anyway, I told him to kiss my butt and he left negative feedback. Big deal.
The second problem I had was on a projector I had won for about $10 or something. The seller had a few instances of not consumating deals but I figured people were just bellyaching for nothing since she had hundreds of positive feedbacks compared to a handful of negs. Anway, I win the auction and she asks for my shipping info so she can calculate shipping costs. I send the info and then she sends the total amount due but NOT where to send payment. She wanted money orders only, so I obviously needed her address. I politely remind her that she forgot the address and asked if she could resend it. She replies,"It's in the previous email, moron! Can't you read?!!" I was flabergasted. Aside from the fact that she did NOT send the address in the previous email, it would have taken less energy to simply type the address again than to formulate such a hate-filled response. I asked again and received a similar reply, but NEVER with the needed address. I figured that she was dissapointed that the item sold so low and was trying to get out of consumating the deal. I left negative feedback and she reciprocated but, hey, screw her. I have since received emails from people that had similar dealings where she refused to send address info.
Other than that, I've nothing but good luck on ebay!
Roger
As a seller, I was offering a VERY rare pin-registered Nikon Photomic 35mm still camera. The conversion on the camera cost something like $2000 in the early 80s and the camera itself was probably over $600 new. Anyway, I had used it on and off a copy stand for over 20 years and decided to sell it with a "Buy it Now" price of $350. I took photos of every stinkin' square inch of that camera, including the inside where the gate is, to show how impeccably clean it was. The only surface I didn't take a picture of was the bottom where the tripod mount was. Some guy buys it and then demands his money back because, get this, "there are scratches and brassin on the bottom of the camera". Well, duh! Imagine that. A camera almost a quarter of a century old has scratches on the bottom. What a numbnut. And he didn't even make any sort of a demand until he had the camera almost three weeks. He obviously bought the camera for the pin registration and not because it was a Photomic, since Photomics are like flies on ebay for practically nothing. I think he used it to do a pin-registered job of some kind and then tried to scam me into getting his money back. Anyway, I told him to kiss my butt and he left negative feedback. Big deal.
The second problem I had was on a projector I had won for about $10 or something. The seller had a few instances of not consumating deals but I figured people were just bellyaching for nothing since she had hundreds of positive feedbacks compared to a handful of negs. Anway, I win the auction and she asks for my shipping info so she can calculate shipping costs. I send the info and then she sends the total amount due but NOT where to send payment. She wanted money orders only, so I obviously needed her address. I politely remind her that she forgot the address and asked if she could resend it. She replies,"It's in the previous email, moron! Can't you read?!!" I was flabergasted. Aside from the fact that she did NOT send the address in the previous email, it would have taken less energy to simply type the address again than to formulate such a hate-filled response. I asked again and received a similar reply, but NEVER with the needed address. I figured that she was dissapointed that the item sold so low and was trying to get out of consumating the deal. I left negative feedback and she reciprocated but, hey, screw her. I have since received emails from people that had similar dealings where she refused to send address info.
Other than that, I've nothing but good luck on ebay!
Roger
Biggest eBay problem I've had are with underage sellers or bidders. Sellers too young so they are using someone elses account to sell, or bidders too young to purchase some items. Had a 15 year old high bid a car from 2000 miles away. That was annoying. I was out the time the auction ran since I had to relist. Got the usual generic we are sorry from eBay and a refund for the auction (except for picture hosting fees). :evil: For larger or possibly questionable transactions I always get the sellers or buyers registered name, address, and phone number from eBay. I also check with public records to see if the information is legit. In the fraud protection program there is a link to request contact information. Sometimes there is nothing better than a phone call to verify information. I've had quite a few where the payment name & or address sent does not match the contact information registered with eBay. I either ask the person why or turn them in and wait a few days. Sometimes it's legit and information is updated, other times the account is removed by eBay. I make no financial exchange until everything is proven correct. Better safe than sorry. I've learned to work within the system so far and have not lost yet. The rules work, but are a pain to follow through sometimes. eBay has major room for improvements to how they deal with bad sellers & bidders.
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