Telecine in HD?

[T-Scan]

This is why i'm standing still on getting a new capture camera for my WP at the moment... Cameras keep getting better and cheaper, where getting an affordable HD device is not far off. I just upgraded my Vegas software to Pro8HD version. But it's my system setup thats 3 years old now, where i have 2 SATA drive in a RAID, and 1.5 gig of ram. Would I still need a Black Majic card?

[MoonstruckProductions]

You can view a still frame at this location:
http://www.moonpro.us/images/hdfilm.png

Do you have any other frames? This image sure doesen´t convince me that there is any point to transfer 8mm films to HD.

There doesen´t seem to be much detail or sharpness, not more than there is in a good SD transfer... :?

Well, the sharpness issue is probably because I'm not the best at focusing. However, it's usually more apparent when you compare the same frame between SD and HD.

The truth is, the difference isn't that noticeable unless you are watching your transfer on an HDTV. If I transfer the exact same reel in SD and in HD and then play the SD DVD on and upconverted DVD player vs. the HD on a BluRay DVD player, the HD version looks better hands down.

Here are a few more clips for SD to HD comparison:

For this comparison I stopped the workprinter on a single frame and didn't change anything about the camera or workprinter. All I did was choose how I was capturing to the computer. The SD images were grabbed from the NTSC DV 720x480 signal off the firewire and the HD images were grabbed using the Blackmagic card and the 1920x1080 component cables.

http://www.moonpro.us/images/SD1.png
http://www.moonpro.us/images/HD.png

One last comarison, I upconverted the SD image to HD by placing it on an HD timeline. This will give you a better idea, side by side, how the SD and HD compare when displayed at the same resolution:

http://www.moonpro.us/images/SD2.png

When you view SD2.png and HD.png you can see a noticeable difference in resolution. Especially when you zoom in.

T-Scan is right though, there are major camera improvements coming that will increase the gap between SD and HD, such as 1/2" HD cameras for under $10,000. But for a $4,000 HD camera, the above images are about the best we can expect for now.

-Scott

[themagickite]

so can you do this HD blackmagic capture stuff on a mac using capturemate?

that HD comparison looks pretty good, so that's 64t, so 100d shouldn't have such pronounced grain. the grain did seem to be more prominent in the HD image, but it still looked cleaner, just film noise rather than film noise and video noise. is there any software that removes grain?

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

The grain sure stands out in the HD transfer. I wonder how big the difference would be on a PAL transfer (since PAL has higher resolution in SD). It looks like the 8mm frame doesen´t hold much "hidden details" in the SD transfer, it is more the grain that gets sharper (and some overall image sharpness).

[richard p. t.]

A more pressing issue than HD (1920x1080) is the 16x9 ratio. I find most customers are happy with the grain and sharpness of sd transfers at the moment, but are starting to ask how I can give them 16x9. If using a condenser lens type frame by frame system, then the answer would be simply use a 16x9 camera. But I use a somewhat expensive 1/2" 3ccd Sony camera (dxc950p) that takes a 1/2" bayonet lens. We then shoot directly off a gate via an extension tube, the flat field macro lens being the only optics involved. To buy a comparable 16x9 camera with 3 x 1/2" ccds and 1/2" lens mount would cost a lot. There are some single cmos hd cameras comming soon, but I fear that these would offer inferior video performance to the camera I am currently using. If only it were possible to anamorphically squeeze the image by using a 16:9 anamorphic macro lens ... I don't think there is such a thing. I could try a 16:9 adapter, but i doubt if such an adapter would work given the long extension tube and large magnification being used to shoot off the gate. But If I could get a 16:9 anamorphic working, that is what I would do. Any advice or suggestions would be useful!

[themagickite]

The grain sure stands out in the HD transfer. I wonder how big the difference would be on a PAL transfer (since PAL has higher resolution in SD). It looks like the 8mm frame doesen´t hold much "hidden details" in the SD transfer, it is more the grain that gets sharper (and some overall image sharpness).

remember that was 64t, 100d in this scenario should give finer grain images.

[Boehmi]

Thanks Moonstruck, the resolution difference between HD and SD is in my eyes worth the effort.
A friend of mine was outlining a computer system for HD-capture (not for professional HD-editing like Moonstruck´s). We intend using a SATA-Raid with a fast controller, an extra harddisk for the operating system, a quad-core processor on a proper mainboard, a few GB of RAM and of course a blackmagic capture card - I am really glad, I don´t have to know the details of computer technology. So we will cut drastically on processing power, but this shouldn´t make a lot of difference, since the main issue is a fast harddrive system?

Anyway, I really don´t mind the 16:9 aspect ratio. Of course it is a waste of resolution, but we plan to use the space for information on the captured film (date, place, who´s in it). I think that´s easier than adding it to the DVD menu or to do some credits.

[jholmesh]

Thank you, Moonstruck!

This thread answers a lot of specific questions about how to upgrade to HD using a WorkPrinter, etc.

I'm sure many others have also been searching for the answers provided here.

Regards,

Jon

[T-Scan]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp ... 0290184207
Something like that would be a real upgrade from what I am using now. Pretty cheap for 3ccds and HD. I didn't see any info as to whether this camera can shoot in SD mode? If so, it would be good to at least be HD ready and have a 3ccd camera at the moment.

P.S. i dont see a firewire?

[VideoFred]

We can have very fine results with a relative cheap 1ccd machine camera and by using wetgate scanning.

1972, Super-8, kodachrome, wetgate scanning:




An original not manipulated 1024x768 1966 R8 frame:
(needs post processing - wetgate scanning will remove scrathes)

http://users.pandora.be/ho-slotcars/Lin ... ng_004.bmp

OK: It's not 3ccd :oops: But a frame like this can be more easy upscaled to HD and will still look pretty good.

Fred.

[themagickite]

what kind of machine are you using for wetgate scanning?

[VideoFred]

what kind of machine are you using for wetgate scanning?

Machine? hahaha

I use this very simple home brew tool:





Inside are two pieces of foam and two round pieces of Vileda window cloths. I fill it with isopropanol. Works like a charm...

Fred.

[richard p. t.]

Hi Fred,
great wet gate device! what type of plastic did you make the little foam holder from?
Richard

[VideoFred]

Hello Richard,

I have used Ertacetal for this. It's an industrial plastic like Delrin or Ertalon. Great stuff for tubes, adapters etc .. too!

Fred.

[themagickite]

Hi Fred,
great wet gate device! what type of plastic did you make the little foam holder from?
Richard

you gonna make one Richard? you won't hear me complaining ;)