Pro8mm may have ruined my film project

[Angus]

As a relevant side note, my latest super 8 films returned from Dwayne's had an extra padded bag inside the USPS priority airmail envelope.

Wonder if they've been reading this?

[MovieStuff]

You know, if Pro8 or anybody else just went ahead and replaced merchandise they were told was DOA, they'd soon go out of business, because everybody would say everything was DOA. (or perhaps not everybody, but most people.)

Agreed. We used to get so many calls from people about equipment where the first thing they asked was, "Okay, so I can return this within 30 days, right?". No questions about quality or how they worked or anything like that. These were not people setting up for serious business but, rather, people looking to buy a machine from us, transfer all their home movies, and then return it later to get their money back. We finally had to post something on our pre-order page that specifically spelled out that there was a no return policy in effect. I can only imagine the inherent problems if Pro8mm said, "Sure, if your footage doesn't come out the way you want, we'll give you another roll and processing and transfer at no charge." Once the footage has been transferred to video, returning the roll means nothing because the customer still has the footage on his computer. Money back guarantees can be really tricky to service for a company.

You know, I like Phil. He gets a lot of flack, but he's done a lot to support S8 back when almost nobody else did.

Let me tell you a little story....:

--------------------
So, give the guy some credit. He could have been a jerk about it, but he wasn't ...

Agreed. I have never had any problems with Pro8mm and I have been doing business with them since they were called Super8Sound up north. I have always found Phil to be passionate about super 8 and very helpful. I do agree some of their prices are kind of high but, then again, there is nothing they are selling that you can't find elsewhere at a lower price. Phil caters to a different crowd that the typical no budget film maker. It's a business, not a philanthropy.

Roger

[DeepBlueEditor]

That's a nice thought Jim and thanks for sharing but, they have a warranty that spells out their responsibility right on the package. They were sent photos of the damage not more than 20 minutes after the package arrived including shots of the packaging and so on. The problem is, the way I see it, they are looking for DHL to cover the cost of their damage. Now that hardly seems fair to DHL? That means that DHL rates may go up a super small fraction of a penny due to someone claiming damages in shipping that doesn't deserve the claim.

Again, if I send a Ming Dynasty vase wrapped in newspaper and surprise, the shipper drops it and it breaks, who's really at fault. Not who should pay necessarily because there is some minor liability on the part of the shipping company I would think because they took on that delivery, but who do you really blame?

If you ordered a new bicycle from Sears and it arrived all bent and the tires popped because they sent it in a large tyvek envelope, you going to call UPS and complain or Sears?

That's my stand and has been since the beginning and I don't care how many times they keep telling me that's how they have always done it, it still doesn't make it right. And believe me, every conversation I have had with them begins and ends with them saying the same thing, that's how we have always done it. Good for them, now honor the warranty folks, that's all I want.

Sean

[MovieStuff]

That's a nice thought Jim and thanks for sharing but, they have a warranty that spells out their responsibility right on the package. ...... And believe me, every conversation I have had with them begins and ends with them saying the same thing, that's how we have always done it. Good for them, now honor the warranty folks, that's all I want.

Sean

Agreed. Phil may be a great guy but, ultimately, they need to honor the warranty and, while I personally know that DHL sucks, that is beside the point. The shipper is reponsible for damage and needs to take care of the customer first and then get compensation from the shipping company that was contracted to carry the package. You should not have to wait for DHL to come through, which my experience says they never will.

Roger

[synthnut]

Hi all,
In the UK, we have a system called the "Distance Selling Regulations" They state that if you sell an item or service to a "consumer" (and that means anyone not directly in their line of trade, e.g. someone looking to transfer their home movies) has a swathe of rights relating to the cancellation of their order. It doesn't apply to most customised products and this is aimed mostly at Rogers problem. If a member of the public orders a WerkPrinto XL from a UK company by internet, phone etc and notifies them within 7 days that they don't want it anymore they are BOUND BY LAW to refund them. They can have used it and don't have to have any of the original packing either. The real rub is that the punter then has all the time in the world it seems to return it! It is supposed to protect the general consumer when buying products they cannot inspect and handle prior to purchase, but ends up being a miss-used thing in quite a few cases.
A product such as Rogers would be ripe for such dubious practice! Hey you could return that nice HiDef camcorder that you bought too...
Don't try this at home kids, really! :oops:

Ben

[MovieStuff]

..... If a member of the public orders a WerkPrinto XL from a UK company by internet, phone etc and notifies them within 7 days that they don't want it anymore they are BOUND BY LAW to refund them.....

The laws here are similar, in regards to returns. However, even with such consumer laws in place, they are superceded if the terms of the sale clearly state "no return, all sales final". You see that all the time on ebay, even on sales in the UK. The laws you speak of are designed to govern sales that have no written terms. Pretty common, actually, but are invalid if the buyer agrees to specific terms that govern the transaction.

Roger

[Blue Audio Visual]

You see that all the time on ebay, even on sales in the UK.

Auctions (internet included) are specifically excluded from the Distance Selling Regulations in UK law.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resour ... exceptions

AFAIK Distance Selling Regulations are enshrined in UK law because of an EU directive, so similar laws should be in place in all or most of the member states of the European Union.

These regulations are designed to protect consumers from unreasonable (written or unwritten) terms and conditions which the seller might try to impose, and carry greater force of law, even if the retailer writes a clause such as the one Roger suggested - "no return, all sales final". There are, as ever, grey areas......

Over the counter I've often sold gear (musical, photographic etc.) to people who come back a day or two later saying that "it's not right for them" or "my friend bought me one" etc. looking for a refund. They nearly always get it, as it's generally not worth arguing the toss. I'm sure that a significant proportion of these cases are people looking for a free rental opportunity.

I've sold a lot of stuff over the internet and the phone (e.g. Distance Selling) but never encountered similar problems, even though the consumer has greater rights to return the goods.