Guys, Guys, Guys,
This is getting a little aggravating for me. I makes me not want to be involved with this forum. WHY IS EVERYONE APPROACHING THIS LIKE A CONSPIRACY THEORY?? Look, lets think about this rationally. WHY would I try to do something like shoot 16mm or anything else and try to pass it off ast super 8? WHAT do I have to gain from this? Sorry, but I really have more important things to do in my life than pull a fast one on "those unsuspecting guys on the Super 8 forum" All I'm trying to do here is show what I've been able to do with this format so that people have one thing - CHOICES!! Its really more of a waste of time for me to continually have to defend what I'm posting each time. I'm with Mattias on this one.
So...... I don't have any idea what Combustion or AE even is so I can't answer your question. Has this film been corrected for exposure and color? Uh, yeah!! Isn't this why I spend the cash to go to a good telecine facility? Do you think it makes sense to to a straight transfer without any tweaking and wear the less than optimal results as a badge of honor? Lets be real here. If you want to shoot Super 8 for whatever reasons and you want the exposure to be the best it can, you want your colors to pop, and you want to use grain reduction, then you use those things if they are available to you. Sorry folks, but its the same way in the video world and with people working in the Hollywood system go to x-fer their feature films and high end commercials. When we telecine our 16mm we do the same thing. As for whiny little bitches that want to push their video over film agenda, (and I shoot A LOT of video too), I have no time for their inane drivel. I'm a professional in this business, this is how I make my living, and at the end of the day its about beautiful images.....
Oh, mattias, yup I understand your predicament. I'f you can maybe splice the shots you know you'll want to load in your NLE together with enough front and back end frames that you won't use in the edit, then this may help to cut down on the costs. I'd go at least 15-20 frames on either side,(might want to speak with Eric about this). You probably already thought of that. Don't be afraid to talk to those guys about your budgetary constraints they are willing to work with people.
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Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
as some one who travelles the backcountry by sled and foot usually with camera gear and a snowboard. I can really appreciate your efforts shralp. My friends that film 16mm have to lug gross looking bags of weight around when there working deep in the middle of nowhere. Make your work even more appealing.
keep it up and dont stop posting, your work has inspired me.
Just curious what kind of project this stuffs from and for?
Ian
keep it up and dont stop posting, your work has inspired me.
Just curious what kind of project this stuffs from and for?
Ian
only shows that the weak link is the telecine. S8 done well has a lot of potential, we're all spoiled form our diy telecine experiences, and should project s8 more to remember what really is in it! I'm still working on my scanner project, i hope to be able to show first samples soon.
Color correction and all other stuff is absolutely standard when digitizing anyithing. You want the information stored on the film, or do you want to have the accidental characteristcs from the telecine setup?
Color correction and all other stuff is absolutely standard when digitizing anyithing. You want the information stored on the film, or do you want to have the accidental characteristcs from the telecine setup?
have fun!
Thanks for the good words Ian. Yup, its really nice to ride with a stripped down program. Then I can enjoy too!
My movie, "Sanctuary" is being made for mountain film festival submission as well as any other Super 8 film festivals that I can find. Its not for retail sale, which is probably a good thing because, there are no jibs, no backcountry cheese wedge booters, no rail slides down stairwells, and no hard rock soundtrack. My point is, most everyone under the age of say, 25 who rides or skis, will not really be into it, (well, most everyone at least, I'm a geezer at 33!). Its pretty much about powder, steep lines, and why people choose to play in the backcountry away from the commercial ski areas. Its primarily sponsored by Arc'teryx and they will use it for promotional use, trade show booth projection, web use, etc. The majority of my riders/skiers are Arc'teryx athletes and also just happen to be good friends of mine.
My movie, "Sanctuary" is being made for mountain film festival submission as well as any other Super 8 film festivals that I can find. Its not for retail sale, which is probably a good thing because, there are no jibs, no backcountry cheese wedge booters, no rail slides down stairwells, and no hard rock soundtrack. My point is, most everyone under the age of say, 25 who rides or skis, will not really be into it, (well, most everyone at least, I'm a geezer at 33!). Its pretty much about powder, steep lines, and why people choose to play in the backcountry away from the commercial ski areas. Its primarily sponsored by Arc'teryx and they will use it for promotional use, trade show booth projection, web use, etc. The majority of my riders/skiers are Arc'teryx athletes and also just happen to be good friends of mine.
The Dog in the Snow
As someone who defected from the "professional" video world to the film world (where I am an "amateur" in the true sense of the word because I use film out of a LOVE [amore] for film), I believe I can state something with confidence:
Most video people have their heads so far up their posteriors that there head and shoulders are once more clear of the body and appear normal. But if you look closely, there's a curl to their spine, a twist of bone and cord that causes interference in the neuro-electrical signals passed from the body to the brain. This distortion in their physical body results in a similar distortion of the mind. Like Richard III, they will smother the babies to secure their rule. They have bought into their own hype, and they think they are worthy to rule.
Sadly, this causes an amazing amount of insecurity in them. There is no argument against the fact that film looks better than video. Take a nice Super8 camera (with auto-exposure and such so that it is as easy to operate as a camcorder) and a typical "pro-sumer" camcorder, hand them to two of your stupidest friends or relatives. Let them each shoot as much as they want, then display the results. Unless you've got a idiot savant behind the camcorder and a drunken monkey behind the S8 camera, the film will look better. Every time.
The first time I shot film and showed it to my partner, she said: "Wow, it's like instant art!" Meaning: it was right out of the envelope from Kodak, on a little S8 viewer, and it looked better than the video I'd been shooting, editing and tweaking for years.
I still like shooting video - it's portable, fast, and can be tweaked in camera and in post to look however I want it to look. I try to keep my 1-chip camcorder handy at all times (unlike my Beaulieu, my Sony will fit in my coat pocket), and have dozens of hours of my walks around Seattle, LA, Albuquerque, and other cities.
But I could AE, Combust, Shake, Boris, and do all kinds of other crazy stuff to it on my azz-kickin workstation and it would still pale in comparison to the first reel of S8 I ever shot on auto with a Canon 1014 on full auto (a slow pan following a man bicycling down the street, along with scenes from a cafe I frequented in Ballard). That one reel sealed it for me: film was the place to be, no matter what all the filmmaking magazines were saying.
I have shot with some of the very best video cameras around, and not once did I ever achieve the breathtaking beauty of that dog careening down the snow covered hill in Shralp's film. I almost wept with joy at that scene. I've watched it about twenty times now, all the time wishing I was a dog leaping through the snow foloowing after my best pal.
Raving video heads are like religious zealots: there's just no talking to them. You are much better off having a conversation with that dog in the snow. At least he knows how to have fun!
Most video people have their heads so far up their posteriors that there head and shoulders are once more clear of the body and appear normal. But if you look closely, there's a curl to their spine, a twist of bone and cord that causes interference in the neuro-electrical signals passed from the body to the brain. This distortion in their physical body results in a similar distortion of the mind. Like Richard III, they will smother the babies to secure their rule. They have bought into their own hype, and they think they are worthy to rule.
Sadly, this causes an amazing amount of insecurity in them. There is no argument against the fact that film looks better than video. Take a nice Super8 camera (with auto-exposure and such so that it is as easy to operate as a camcorder) and a typical "pro-sumer" camcorder, hand them to two of your stupidest friends or relatives. Let them each shoot as much as they want, then display the results. Unless you've got a idiot savant behind the camcorder and a drunken monkey behind the S8 camera, the film will look better. Every time.
The first time I shot film and showed it to my partner, she said: "Wow, it's like instant art!" Meaning: it was right out of the envelope from Kodak, on a little S8 viewer, and it looked better than the video I'd been shooting, editing and tweaking for years.
I still like shooting video - it's portable, fast, and can be tweaked in camera and in post to look however I want it to look. I try to keep my 1-chip camcorder handy at all times (unlike my Beaulieu, my Sony will fit in my coat pocket), and have dozens of hours of my walks around Seattle, LA, Albuquerque, and other cities.
But I could AE, Combust, Shake, Boris, and do all kinds of other crazy stuff to it on my azz-kickin workstation and it would still pale in comparison to the first reel of S8 I ever shot on auto with a Canon 1014 on full auto (a slow pan following a man bicycling down the street, along with scenes from a cafe I frequented in Ballard). That one reel sealed it for me: film was the place to be, no matter what all the filmmaking magazines were saying.
I have shot with some of the very best video cameras around, and not once did I ever achieve the breathtaking beauty of that dog careening down the snow covered hill in Shralp's film. I almost wept with joy at that scene. I've watched it about twenty times now, all the time wishing I was a dog leaping through the snow foloowing after my best pal.
Raving video heads are like religious zealots: there's just no talking to them. You are much better off having a conversation with that dog in the snow. At least he knows how to have fun!
Clips
I have to say that the sunrise (sunset?) shot that you posted here is quite possibly the most beautiful piece of super8 film I've ever seen. I'm stunned by the quality.
How steady was your footage before tweaking it? It looks rock steady now. Obviously we're viewing it at very low resolution, but from here, that could easily pass for 16mm.
How steady was your footage before tweaking it? It looks rock steady now. Obviously we're viewing it at very low resolution, but from here, that could easily pass for 16mm.
SHOOT FILM!
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danpuddick
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what soundtrack are you going to have? - you're right about the heavy metal though who ever decided that rock and snow mixed? Would love to see the finished article, keep us posted about any festivals where it might be shown etc great work dude
ps any other snow/cold conditions tips. I'm moving too Umeå, Northern Sweden, and theres a million projects I wanna do, bu I've never filmed snow cold before - did you have any battery difficulties etc
ps any other snow/cold conditions tips. I'm moving too Umeå, Northern Sweden, and theres a million projects I wanna do, bu I've never filmed snow cold before - did you have any battery difficulties etc
keep on truckin'
daniel
daniel
Danpuddick, overall, I've had very little problems shooting on snow over the years. I've actually had way more problems shooting Betacam on the snow than film actually. The main thing is to keep the camera from fogging and condensing and this is done by keeping it the same ambient temperature. For instance, don't run into the ski lodge once you've had it outside or you'll be sunk for an hour at least. Also, in the backcountry, I have a custom made chest pack for my Nizo that I wear OUTSIDE of my jacket so it stays the same temps. I found that using the newer lithium ion double AA's work wonders in the snow in terms of getting good use and consistent speed for many rolls at a time. Alkalines just don't work very well for this. This is one reason I chose to use a Nizo Professional, no funky proprietary battery systems that are 30 years old to deal with. My second choice would have been a Lithium Ion powered Beaulieu 4008, I just couldn't find a way to do it.
As for soundrack, its going be largely instrumental, with kind of a groovy, funky feel to it, Kruder Dorfmeister, Thievery Corp, some non "slap my bitch up" hip hop that has more jazz influences, etc etc.
I'll keep folks posted. At this point I'd like to be done by August, but I may bookend this film with a trip to Argentina so, we'll see.....
Paul L. - Thanks, I'm pretty pleased with that shot. As for steadyness, we didn't have to fix anything in that dept. Luckily, I've been able to escape the K-40 jitter problems so far with over 50 rolls of it. Is this due to a good camera or good telecine? I don't know, I've just made sure to order directly from Kodak to ensure the freshest stock, (hopefully in the fixed carts) and requested matching/newer batch #'s and film lots to ensure consistent color quality, (if that helps at all, I hear differing reports on this). I'm still seeing funky color shifts from my K-40 though. I assume its from Dwaynes processing but thats the only viable choice now that pre-paid processing rolls in the U.S. get farmed out to them. I also have a nice fluid head that I completely lock down so that it won't move at all during the timely process of shooting a shot like this. As for the action shots a good fluid head will do wonders...
As for soundrack, its going be largely instrumental, with kind of a groovy, funky feel to it, Kruder Dorfmeister, Thievery Corp, some non "slap my bitch up" hip hop that has more jazz influences, etc etc.
I'll keep folks posted. At this point I'd like to be done by August, but I may bookend this film with a trip to Argentina so, we'll see.....
Paul L. - Thanks, I'm pretty pleased with that shot. As for steadyness, we didn't have to fix anything in that dept. Luckily, I've been able to escape the K-40 jitter problems so far with over 50 rolls of it. Is this due to a good camera or good telecine? I don't know, I've just made sure to order directly from Kodak to ensure the freshest stock, (hopefully in the fixed carts) and requested matching/newer batch #'s and film lots to ensure consistent color quality, (if that helps at all, I hear differing reports on this). I'm still seeing funky color shifts from my K-40 though. I assume its from Dwaynes processing but thats the only viable choice now that pre-paid processing rolls in the U.S. get farmed out to them. I also have a nice fluid head that I completely lock down so that it won't move at all during the timely process of shooting a shot like this. As for the action shots a good fluid head will do wonders...
I can't believe it...
You did no jitter removal on this footage? Super8 with the most stable of carts usually doesn't look that good. I'd say that the Nizo is doing quite a good job and that you were lucky to get good carts.
SHOOT FILM!
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mattias
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Re: I can't believe it...
as long as you have a good projector/scanner gate it does. everything i've shot (before and after 2001) on my canon 814 has been perfectly (and i mean perfectly) steady when projected with my eumig mark, but all video transfer i've done including rank and professional film chains have had some jitter. my own diy transfers are the steadiest i've seen before this, although they obviously flicker a lot. i'm guessing these guys use a more recent machine than most, like an ursa diamond or maybe even a spirit or millenium? the $600/hr surely suggest that.Paul L. wrote:You did no jitter removal on this footage? Super8 with the most stable of carts usually doesn't look that good.
/matt
Nope, no jitter removal. Just shot it, sent it to Kodak, (Dwaynes), had it cleaned and prepped for telecine on 400' reels at Pac Lab and then went in for the x-fer. This thought just came to me too- Maybe I ended up getting some jitter rolls in the mix but I did pay extra cash for my Nizo Professional from a guy in Europe that had this particular camera, (already in pristine condition), gone through by an ex-Nizo factory tech and relubed, re-spec'd to factory tolerances, etc etc. Could it be that the camera is able to handle faulty rolls? I just didn't want a 30 year old camera going down on me in the middle of nowhere so I paid a higher price for a really nice condition camera.
Mattias, yup its a Philips Spirit, one notch down from a Shadow
Mattias, yup its a Philips Spirit, one notch down from a Shadow
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Dave Hardy
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The cement splices discussed were between one 50' roll & the white leader on the next no splices within reels. Just want to avoid the potential problem caused by doing amature tape splices. I asked about a one light trransfer as I would rather spend the extra money doing a 4:2:2 transfer to DigiBeta master & doing the color corrrecting in Final Cut Pro 4.Dave Hardy wrote:We can run tape splices but the the last few feet of each roll before the splice will not be steady
I never use auto exposure ( snow is obviously 3 stops removed from 18% gray). If the built in reflected light meter must be used zoom in to fill the frame with a face & open up the lens by a stop to compensate for the 36% reflectence of caucasian skin tones.
Dave
Hahaha, not really. Shadow is kind of a cheap Spirit. Spirit is now one of the best telecine (because I never saw Millenium). What were the correction device ? DaVinci 2K, 888 or Poggle ? Do they have a web-site ?Mattias, yup its a Philips Spirit, one notch down from a Shadow
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"Composing is improvising slower" Bill EVANS
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"Composing is improvising slower" Bill EVANS
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You should have asked for a "best light" transfer. If you took care of your shoot, this is not really longer than "one light" and get better results since colorist directly play on CCD sensivity and light buble intensivity (if they have "creativity" option for there Spirit).I asked about a one light trransfer as I would rather spend the extra money doing a 4:2:2 transfer to DigiBeta master & doing the color corrrecting in Final Cut Pro 4.
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"Composing is improvising slower" Bill EVANS
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"Composing is improvising slower" Bill EVANS
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Cheap
I do not find anything cheap about a telecine that costs $750,000.Hahaha, not really. Shadow is kind of a cheap Spirit. Spirit is now one of the best telecine (because I never saw Millenium). What were the correction device ? DaVinci 2K, 888 or Pogle ? Do they have a web-site ?
There was quite a bit of research that went into our purchase of the Shadow and one of the factors wasn't that it was a cheap Spirit.
It was the right piece of technology for our clients and our market.
We have a 2k w/defocus and one power tier.
Web site is still in progress.
Eric Rosen
Flying Spot Film Transfer
Flying Spot Film Transfer