Eumig 610D Focus Problem & DIY TELECINE - NEWBIE!!!

[Rich2000]

IT'S FIXED!!!

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I've tickled with these. Lubricated a few things and still to no avail, but then I thought I spotted something amiss...

The film direction and start knob has a lever out of the top. This looked like it was supposed to press the gate sideways, but after slackening the gate hinge screws and adjusting slightly it now presses the gate assembly up, or at least adds tension to it. Whichever way it's supposed to go, it is now sharp for Super 8 on the film I had previously had trouble on.

To celebrate I think I'm going to watch some more films this afternoon.

Thanks for your kind offer RCBasher. It is highly appreciated. Your tremendous help too. Thank You! Thanks to all you other guys for suggestions too. I hope by finding this little thing amiss, if it's correct, that it will benefit any one else out there with a 610D problem. In addition it doesn't rattle in reverse direction now. I used to have to press the gate slightly to get it to shut up. But that's gone too!

All that remains is to start the Telecine part of the operation now. Do you think you would get much success putting a microswitch on the upper film tensioner (the one above the gate)? That seems to oscilate at a more consistent frequency and amplitude than the rear film tensioner used on other projects. Just an observation, but the practicalities of it look a little difficult.

I'll certainly report back on my findings this afternoon and see if the fix holds out for all the other films.

A BIG THANKS!

Rich

[RCBasher]

All that remains is to start the Telecine part of the operation now. Do you think you would get much success putting a microswitch on the upper film tensioner (the one above the gate)? That seems to oscilate at a more consistent frequency and amplitude than the rear film tensioner used on other projects. Just an observation, but the practicalities of it look a little difficult.

That's good news. Glad you have it sorted.
On the telecine front, I have just bought some Hall effect switches to play with. My idea is to stick a small plastic magnet strip on the inside of the claw frame. Don't know if it will be a strong enough field, but shall see. The sensor is a three pin device in a small ( e-line version of TO92) package and only cost around £1.30 from RS (SS443A). If it needs a strong magnet (read: big and heavy!) then it might be possible to mount the sensor on the arm instead...but will need to be careful about the wires so they don't break. Could use the same wire and principle as a record deck tone arm.
Will post my results, good or bad, in due course.

Frank

[onsuper8]

I cant remember who - but someone emailed me to say that's they'd used a read switch to do the triggering with good effect - I didnt see photos though so wasnt exactly sure where they'd gone for!

[RCBasher]

I just lashed up the Hall effect switch on the desk with a LED on the output as an indicator and a small piece of plastic magnet (like from a fridge magnet) and it seemed to work very well in terms of sensitivity.
A bit picky to the field shape though, so positioning on the claw arm frame might be quite critical in order to encompass the full range of movement, especially if required to work in reverse mode - but is this a real requirement?

Frank

[RCBasher]

I cant remember who - but someone emailed me to say that's they'd used a read switch to do the triggering with good effect - I didnt see photos though so wasnt exactly sure where they'd gone for!

Well there aren't many choices! The only internal bit which truely moves with actual pulldown for all speeds is the claw frame pivot movement. The fact that it also slides up and down the same shaft just adds to the problem
Some more experimenting required...

Frank

[RCBasher]

Results of my testing with a Hall effect sensor can be found here: Eumig 610D Hall

Frank

[rusjpnl]

We have discussed this already. I cut the blades of the same projector (access from the lamp side, without disassembling the claw) with a small rotary machine like ‘dremel’.

Of course ex-situ.

Don't think you will be able to snip off the blades in situ with tinsnips. This is a cast and machined assembly. The blades are quite thick and part of the pulley and claw pulldown assembly which could be easily damaged. I had to disassemble the unit and turn off the blades in the lathe...but a hacksaw and a bit of filing would do the job also, but don't forget it spins at over 1000rpm, so good balance is essential
Frank

[rusjpnl]

Right. I have mentioned this also before, that the "shutter problem" apears when doing transfer with an NTSC camcorder. I have both and there is (almost) no flickering with PAL.

By the way, Ronnoco, you have not succeded to install the microswith in the same way I did it?

I don't see the need to remove the shutter blades at all...I understand from reading posts on this forum that problems with shutter blades seem to be associated with ntsc but not with pal...I have not had any problems at all with the shutter blades..
Mike

[RCBasher]

We have discussed this already. I cut the blades of the same projector (access from the lamp side, without disassembling the claw) with a small rotary machine like ‘dremel’.

Doesn't sound like a great idea to have all the bits from dremel cutting flying around inside the projector which is covered in grease...but each to our own!

[rusjpnl]

Yes, that's was my idea. RCBasher, what do you think about this?
The key part is the "C" part on your photo.

Heres the link to the photo for an alternative mounting point for the micro switch suggested by another member'''looks promising to me...though it will of course still be a mechanical solution....just a lot more reliable than the film tensioner method.

http://picasaweb.google.com/rusjpnl/Unt ... 9734336834

[rusjpnl]

Not at all. Everything inside was covered and protected against flying chips. Moreover, a powerfull vacuum cleaner will do the job ;). Old tricks...

Doesn't sound like a great idea to have all the bits from dremel cutting flying around inside the projector which is covered in grease...but each to our own!

[RCBasher]

The key part is the "C" part on your photo.

No, the key part is B in the photo. C only moves when it is time to inhibit a pulldown. Try setting the projector to 18fps and then look at C...it doesn't move at all!

What you have to detect is when B moves to the left at the bottom of the stroke (as viewed from the back). If it is being inhibited by C for lower speeds, then B will already be on the left during the whole stroke (claw retracted from the film) and therefore must not be detected as a pulldown....because one didn't happen!

[RCBasher]

Not at all. Everything inside was covered and protected against flying chips. Moreover, a powerfull vacuum cleaner will do the job ;). Old tricks...

Yes, we have all done the "old tricks" in the past...but usually as a last resort to good engineering practice In this case, a few minutes with a screwdriver and it can be done with far less risk to a piece of metal lodging quietly in a corner somewhere...waiting to come out and scratch your best film :twisted:

[rusjpnl]

Try setting the projector to 18fps and then look at C...it doesn't move at all!

Sure, but I do my transfer at 3 or 6 fps. No problem. Part C does the job. And it is relatively easy accessible.

[RCBasher]

Try setting the projector to 18fps and then look at C...it doesn't move at all!

Sure, but I do my transfer at 3 or 6 fps. No problem. Part C does the job. And it is relatively easy accessible.

And probably ok for 9fps also, but not 12 or 18. There may also be phasing problems between different speed settings (I haven't looked that closely to be sure) requiring a switch repositioning because it is not important to the projector mechanism as to exactly when the inhibit cam operates, as long as it is in position sometime before the next attempt by the claw to move into the film. This could well be an academic point...as I said, I've not looked close enough at this aspect because I've by-passed it completely.

If one wanted to get really precise about it, a dual sensor system could be installed...an accurate one on the blade rotation...this would trigger precisely every rotation, but then combine it with a sensor/switch on inhibit cam to stop the trigger pulses going to the camera or PC for the lower speeds. Rather exotic and OTT...but would work for all speeds

Another point worth noting for anyone else looking at this area, is the switch or sensor needs to be mounted to the claw and cam assembly, not the chassis...because it moves up and down as a whole for framing.