Eumig 610D Focus Problem & DIY TELECINE - NEWBIE!!!

[ALAN]

rich, the focus has got to be associated with something not parallel - as was suggested: the lens mount door not being fully closed, or the lens assembly not centered in it's mount , or even elements within the lens loose. Does the lens rattle when shaken? - easier to test removed from the projector :lol:

incidentally, please post how you like the HDV camera for capture.

[ALAN]

rich, the focus has got to be associated with something not parallel - as was suggested: the lens mount door not being fully closed, or the lens assembly not centered in it's mount , or even elements within the lens loose. Does the lens rattle when shaken? - easier to test removed from the projector :lol:

incidentally, please post how you like the HDV camera for capture.

[Rich2000]

Hi all,

Alan I only said I have a HDV camera, I have absolutely no idea how to get it work in HD mode with Cinecap, so I will start off just caputing SD. Anyone got any suggestions?

Also, Alan, there's no sound what so ever from the lens. The overall condition of the projector is pretty amazing. A good purchase.

The focus issue seems strange. I've already checked over what most of you guys said, but will do so again. The most bizare thing is that Standard 8mm is crisp edge to edge. IMO the spread of the focus range would be evident in the Standard 8, but it isn't - Razor sharp. Only on Super 8. I'm only guessing here, but could the side guide in the gate be pressing the film and curling it? If it isn't flat then it can't all be in focus??? Again would strong plate springs press the film flat. It's just strange that it's fine in 8mm, but not S8 :?

I'm no expert on projectors etc, but have a sound mechanical background. Some of these problems seem to be the black arts that we all bump into. Some of us excel at them others get frustrated

Incidentally. Just as a test I tried to record the projection off the wall in HD mode. Not perfectly set up or framed by any means, a little dark (does making the image smaller intensify the light?) but it gives an idea of what's what. I have to report after capturing it back to my PC, correcting colour etc and making a normal DVD, it all looks pretty good and not a flicker in sight, although I think I'm getting combined frames occasionally. Is that the shutter, or the software interlacing frames? I used 1/25th shutter speed.

Rich

[ronnoco]

Frank and Rich

Maybe I am not using the correct term when I talk about dropped frames..when using cinecap I have had differing capture rates as reported by the software itself...it tells you how many frames have been captured successfully....sometimes with 6fps capture it seems to be spot on and has captured a complete 50 foot reel without reporting any 'dropped' i.e. not captured frames...at other times because of changing film tension the micro switch does not trigger accurately and cinecap will report dropped frames...so it certainly is attributable to the switch..no doubt about it...Frank you are correct about the alternative mounting point for the switch...near to the claw mechanism...it seems that it is necessary to fabricate a small mounting 'plate' to attach the switch too..which is then triggered by a moving part of the 'claw mechanism'...I will look through the previous posts to find the picture of the modification and post the link.
I have to say that I have not been aware of any brightness flickering caused by the shutter blades...although I do understand your point about 18 fps not being a multiple of Pal frame rate...just have not been aware of any untoward flickering at all....hence my comments about not understanding the need to remove the shutter blades.
Anyway...I will go off to search for the previous posts and pics of the alternative micro switch mounting point...be back soon...

Mike

[ALAN]

i'm not familiar with that projector - is it a dual format? - must be to run R8 and S8. if it's R8, that and film curl might be the problem. i use a BOLEX and it has guides that can hold the film away from the gate - got to tuck the film under sometimes with a greasy fi,nger. you are right to infer that if R8 looks good then it's S8 film related not lens alignment.

i was getting all kinds of interlace artifacts until i got rid of the shutter blades.

sorry to hear about the HDV import issue. very dissapointing. at least you have a high res. chip to output letterboxed SD - maybe that will help. i use the still photo mode on my little handycam [no letterbox option]. much better than the video mode. [1152 x 8??] photo res. though it's captured down to DV res. 720 whatever.

projecting smaller [8 x 10 photo paper] is much brighter. if you could put a long [135mm?] lens on there it should minimise the keystone distortion.

i found that projecting onto paper was better contrast-wise, but then you have flicker to deal with - you could get rid of the shutter and frame capture off the paper -- that would help contrast andsolve flicker, but the focus problem comes first.

keep us posted.

[ronnoco]

Heres the link to the photo for an alternative mounting point for the micro switch suggested by another member'''looks promising to me...though it will of course still be a mechanical solution....just a lot more reliable than the film tensioner method.

http://picasaweb.google.com/rusjpnl/Unt ... 9734336834

Frank I will try to post some examples of my capture efforts soon...however I am off on a two week holiday tomorrow so I am sorry but it will be when I get back...I have posted one short example on youtube....my very first attempt with this system...you can find it here..the film was old and pretty scratched and damaged...that why I used it for testing..have a look anyways...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyY28UGHl8g

[ronnoco]

Heres the link to the photo for an alternative mounting point for the micro switch suggested by another member'''looks promising to me...though it will of course still be a mechanical solution....just a lot more reliable than the film tensioner method.

http://picasaweb.google.com/rusjpnl/Unt ... 9734336834

Frank I will try to post some examples of my capture efforts soon...however I am off on a two week holiday tomorrow so I am sorry but it will be when I get back...I have posted one short example on youtube....my very first attempt with this system...you can find it here..the film was old and pretty scratched and damaged...that why I used it for testing..have a look anyways...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyY28UGHl8g

[RCBasher]

Frank I will try to post some examples of my capture efforts soon...however I am off on a two week holiday tomorrow so I am sorry but it will be when I get back...I have posted one short example on youtube....my very first attempt with this system...you can find it here..the film was old and pretty scratched and damaged...that why I used it for testing..have a look anyways...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyY28UGHl8g

Hi Mike, Very difficult to tell from the youtube clip, but there looks to be horizontal banding..can see it in the sky...which may be due to different exposures of the two fields making up a frame because of blade interference. However, the bands seem to be too thick for individual lines, but perhaps some knock-on effect of the post processing and compression. It would be best to use CineCap to export a frame from your captured sequence before any other processing.

Have a great holiday...hope you are going somewhere warm and dry. This continuous rain is getting me down...and I'm not one of the poor souls who have had their homes and lives wrecked by floods! The town where I work is on the hit list for flooding today though...

Frank

[RCBasher]

The focus issue seems strange. I've already checked over what most of you guys said, but will do so again. The most bizare thing is that Standard 8mm is crisp edge to edge. IMO the spread of the focus range would be evident in the Standard 8, but it isn't - Razor sharp. Only on Super 8. I'm only guessing here, but could the side guide in the gate be pressing the film and curling it? If it isn't flat then it can't all be in focus??? Again would strong plate springs press the film flat. It's just strange that it's fine in 8mm, but not S8 :?

I suggest getting a 2" off-cut of S8 and manually placing it into the gate with the door open and then see how it fits. Check the pulldown claw is centred sideways in the sprocket hole. The gate assembly is adjustable by loosening the top and bottom screws and also the far left centre screw - the one with the two spring ends pressing on it. Obviously also check the right hand spring loaded film guide is free to move. The spring is very light and it should move easily. Finally, leave the speed selector at 0, close the door and then see what it looks like.

Frank

[Rich2000]

Hey Guys,

Just out of interest I took the gate door off completely to see what's what and also give the works a good old clean.

Could anyone verify to me where the shim with 2 holes in it goes?

I took it off from the bottom bracket. It was underneath the screw heads on top of the hinge plate. Is this correct? The bottom hinge is the one that is hard to get at because of the lamp bracket. If anyone had previously taken the gate off and put it here because they didn't know where it had come from would that cause parallel issues. I can't see any witness marks. See diagram

(-) (-) Screw Heads
--- --- Washer
-------------- Shim with two holes
oooooooooo Hinge Plate

Thanks

Rich

[RCBasher]

Hey Guys,

Just out of interest I took the gate door off completely to see what's what and also give the works a good old clean.

Could anyone verify to me where the shim with 2 holes in it goes?

I took it off from the bottom bracket. It was underneath the screw heads on top of the hinge plate. Is this correct? The bottom hinge is the one that is hard to get at because of the lamp bracket. If anyone had previously taken the gate off and put it here because they didn't know where it had come from would that cause parallel issues. I can't see any witness marks. See diagram

(-) (-) Screw Heads
--- --- Washer
-------------- Shim with two holes
oooooooooo Hinge Plate

Thanks

Rich

Rich,
This was how I recall mine being:
(-) (-) Screw Heads
--- --- Washer
oooooooooo Hinge Plate
-------------- Shim with two holes
######### Chassis

I would think this would only cause a top-bottom problem though.
You said before that you are seeing the sprocket holes on S8...that would be one hole in the centre edge, yes? This could mean the gate assembly is out of alignment.

Frank

[Rich2000]

Hi RCBasher,

Would it be possible to check that it is the case that the shim is under the hinge plate? I'll try putting the shim under the hinge plate and see what happens.

Yes, I am seeing just one sprocket hole in the centre left side. When you say alignment issue, how do you re-align it? It's starting to look like I'll have to have an expert look at it Any volunteers... hahaha

I still can't understand why Standard8 Is razor sharp! Most peculiar.

Cheers

Rich

[RCBasher]

Would it be possible to check that it is the case that the shim is under the hinge plate? I'll try putting the shim under the hinge plate and see what happens.

I could check it, but I know it is there because that's where I put it back :lol: For this reason, I can't check for certain it was there before I took it apart

Yes, I am seeing just one sprocket hole in the centre left side. When you say alignment issue, how do you re-align it? It's starting to look like I'll have to have an expert look at it Any volunteers... hahaha

You could start by checking the pulldown claws are in the centre (sideways) of the slots in the gate back plate. If this is way off, you could loosen the three screws holding the gate in place and adjust accordingly.
Next place a piece of film (or leader) in the gate and make a close inspection of how it sits. The two small screws are actually cams which adjust the sprocket side position of the film guide.
If you look at the picture on my webpage of my gate before modification, try comparing it with yours. The mode was set to R8 for this shot.
Can you post a front on picture closeup of your gate with the door open?

Frank

[Rich2000]

Hi RCBasher.

I swapped the shim position over, but still the same.

Below is a quick pic of my gate, not too good a shot I'm afraid. The claw pins sit perfectly in the middle of the Super8 sprocket holes!



I tried something which you guys will probably cringe at. I watched the Super 8 film with Standard8 framing selected the whole image was sharp and proved the film was focused well. I then slid it to half way so that the top half of the frame was shown as Standard 8 and the bottom Super 8. Both were sharp from left to right. As soon as the selector clicked fully into Super 8... blurred on the left side.



Looks like I'll have to dig my hands in my pocket and get someone to sort this. I really need it to be sharp if I'm going to telecine with it.

Any more ideas more than welcome. Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

Cheers

Rich

[RCBasher]

I swapped the shim position over, but still the same.

Thought this would be the case.

Below is a quick pic of my gate, not too good a shot I'm afraid. The claw pins sit perfectly in the middle of the Super8 sprocket holes!

Looks the same as mine.

I tried something which you guys will probably cringe at. I watched the Super 8 film with Standard8 framing selected the whole image was sharp and proved the film was focused well. I then slid it to half way so that the top half of the frame was shown as Standard 8 and the bottom Super 8. Both were sharp from left to right. As soon as the selector clicked fully into Super 8... blurred on the left side.

Well you are looking at a wider section of film of course. Silly question, but you have got your screen and projector square to each other? If so, are you able to twist one or the other out of square and get a sharp picture all over?

Any more ideas more than welcome. Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

I'm not intending to use the lens on my unit, so if you want to give it a try, send me a PM of your address and I'll send it off to you to compare.

Frank