:?
Here is a different approach to the age old question about shooting S8 at 24fps.What about improvements at the faster speed when shooting in scope? I'm sure there are many out there (particularly stateside) that shoot in this medium for the ultimate in viewing pleasure-projected of course-and I wonder what experience you may have had.
Is it worthwhile shooting at the extra framerate or just film at the plodding 18fps? Useage of filmstock/running time is NOT an issue,but please do not let this cloud anyones judgement when replying.
I look forward to your comments.
'Scope at 24fps ?
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Old Uncle Barry
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advantages of 24fps over 18fps:
smoother motion
simpler and smoother conversion to video
less of a problem with strobing when doing pans and things
less grain
advantage of 18fps over 24fps:
more light for each frame
less expensive
almost anything in the above list could be seen as an advantage if it is the look you are
going for.
~Jess
smoother motion
simpler and smoother conversion to video
less of a problem with strobing when doing pans and things
less grain
advantage of 18fps over 24fps:
more light for each frame
less expensive
almost anything in the above list could be seen as an advantage if it is the look you are
going for.
~Jess
Two prime reasons for 24fps over 18 are:
Better definition due to shorter exposure (reduced motion blur etc)
Improved sound at the high-frequency end.
With modern stripe, extra speed for sound isn't vital since at 18 fps the film already runs faster than a cassette tape (about 3 ips against under 2).
Tim.
Better definition due to shorter exposure (reduced motion blur etc)
Improved sound at the high-frequency end.
With modern stripe, extra speed for sound isn't vital since at 18 fps the film already runs faster than a cassette tape (about 3 ips against under 2).
Tim.
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S8 Booster
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Projcting speed.
Just some observations and theorys.
It seems that Kodak always use a "reference" shutter speed of 1/51th of a second / 170° shutter angle for 24 fps film "capturing" on their movie film material.
(also check http://www.jl-site.com/Production/Shutter/Angles.html)
I believe that this is the ideal setting for smoothest motion vs least strobing effect at 24 fps projection.
I have done some tests with my Canon 1014 XL-S at 18 fps with 150° shutter angle/speed = 1/40th second and the same setting at 24fps (1/58th of a second).
I was surprised that in a way, that the 18 fps setting "kind of" produced smoother motion than the 24 fps setting which seemed to produce a slightly more "strobing effect" at camera movement, pan, tilt. The motion as such is smoother at 24 fps but I found the strobing effect that "bites" the eye is more expressed at 24 fps with my cam.
If my observations are correct, which I believe, the 170° camera shutter angle is ideal for 24 fps film projection and if your camera´s shutter angle is bigger than 170° 24 fps will produce better motion at camera movement than 18 fps.
Tests nessecary to get the equation right with each camera type due to differences in design I believe.
As you know well, 18fps is perfectly OK when the camra movement is done at sufficiently low speeds so I believe that 18 fps works fine.
Are you using the Quartz for this?
What is the shutter angle of that camera?
regards,
It seems that Kodak always use a "reference" shutter speed of 1/51th of a second / 170° shutter angle for 24 fps film "capturing" on their movie film material.
(also check http://www.jl-site.com/Production/Shutter/Angles.html)
I believe that this is the ideal setting for smoothest motion vs least strobing effect at 24 fps projection.
I have done some tests with my Canon 1014 XL-S at 18 fps with 150° shutter angle/speed = 1/40th second and the same setting at 24fps (1/58th of a second).
I was surprised that in a way, that the 18 fps setting "kind of" produced smoother motion than the 24 fps setting which seemed to produce a slightly more "strobing effect" at camera movement, pan, tilt. The motion as such is smoother at 24 fps but I found the strobing effect that "bites" the eye is more expressed at 24 fps with my cam.
If my observations are correct, which I believe, the 170° camera shutter angle is ideal for 24 fps film projection and if your camera´s shutter angle is bigger than 170° 24 fps will produce better motion at camera movement than 18 fps.
Tests nessecary to get the equation right with each camera type due to differences in design I believe.
As you know well, 18fps is perfectly OK when the camra movement is done at sufficiently low speeds so I believe that 18 fps works fine.
Are you using the Quartz for this?
What is the shutter angle of that camera?
regards,
..tnx for reminding me Michael Lehnert.... or Santo or.... cinematography.com super8 - the forum of Rednex, Wannabees and Pretenders...
magnetic sound is MUCH better and much more dynamic with 24 fps.
The technical dates: up to 10 kHz with 18 fps, up to 12,5 kHz with 24 fps.
Cassette tape is no reference, because the conditions of striped film are worser than with super fine polyester tape. The head contact of film is not as good as with audio tape. Therefore the limited frequency range at relatively high speeds.
Using the same shutter angle (165...180°), the results at 24 fps come out MUCH smoother with my cams, not depending on camera or actor movements. However, in theory, when having a camera with a rather closed shutter, optimized to provide sharp shots at low framerates, I can imagine that the strobe effect may rise when using the same shutter setting with 24 fps. The exp time of each frame becomes too short in relation to the framerate. But in general, 24 fps provide more sharpness, less shutter effect, no wiped pans, more resolution... and a technically not determinable impression on the user, all is looking more smooth, more "pro" and perfect. More cinema and less home movie style.
In combination with that framerate, exposure should be made with much care, in order to avoid amateurish over-exposuring. Better fix the stop under constant light conditions and do a slight under-exposuring, providing more saturized colors and more sharpness. That will emphasize the pro look.
Pedro
The technical dates: up to 10 kHz with 18 fps, up to 12,5 kHz with 24 fps.
Cassette tape is no reference, because the conditions of striped film are worser than with super fine polyester tape. The head contact of film is not as good as with audio tape. Therefore the limited frequency range at relatively high speeds.
Using the same shutter angle (165...180°), the results at 24 fps come out MUCH smoother with my cams, not depending on camera or actor movements. However, in theory, when having a camera with a rather closed shutter, optimized to provide sharp shots at low framerates, I can imagine that the strobe effect may rise when using the same shutter setting with 24 fps. The exp time of each frame becomes too short in relation to the framerate. But in general, 24 fps provide more sharpness, less shutter effect, no wiped pans, more resolution... and a technically not determinable impression on the user, all is looking more smooth, more "pro" and perfect. More cinema and less home movie style.
In combination with that framerate, exposure should be made with much care, in order to avoid amateurish over-exposuring. Better fix the stop under constant light conditions and do a slight under-exposuring, providing more saturized colors and more sharpness. That will emphasize the pro look.
Pedro