Well, it looks like my Sankyo S8 camera will shoot the newer Kodak stock, but it will be a pain. I've been thinking about trying 16mm, and this may be the perfect time. I'm very much a "home movie" kind of shooter. I want to capture my kids while on vacation traveling around the country. I've got a couple EIKI 16mm projectors that were given to me years ago, and both seem to work. The question now is which camera to purchase? I realize that the simplicity of the S8 cartridge isn't going to be possible with 16mm, but is there something will come close as far as ease of use? Basically, I need a decent tourist 16mm camera. The K3 looks ok to me, the size is close enough to that of my Sankyo, and the footage I've seen looks very nice. The wind-up drive is sort of bothersome, as I'm sure it's a lot louder than my S8 camera, but I could live with it. Is this camera full-manual...meaning I have to adjust the exposure for every shot myself...or there an "auto" setting? Is it a user-friendly camera? I've never shot a bad roll of S8 with the Sankyo, and I'd prefer a 16mm camera that is going to be pretty forgiving if possible.
I realize that moving to 16mm will cost more for film and processing, but for as little shooting I do it's not a big deal. When I look at the beautiful footage of my 10-year old that I shot on S8 when he was 4, it was worth the hassle and expense. I imagine shooting 16mm will be even better...
jp
Transitioning from S8 to 16mm...
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
Get a non-reflex Bolex and some good C-mount primes (Switar or Angenieux or Schneider or... well, just go crazy on ebay). They're reliable, easy to operate and lenses are plentiful. I love the windup action for travelling or anytime I can't rely on easy access to battery charging, which is more often than not.
I have one and the full compliment of Switar primes and I find that I use it more often than my Beaulieu R16, though that's a very nice battery-op camera that can be had reasonably affordable as well.
EDIT: You'll be in full manual mode on most affordable 16mm rigs, but I think you will find 16mm to be more forgiving than S8 in many ways...
Good luck!
Chris
I have one and the full compliment of Switar primes and I find that I use it more often than my Beaulieu R16, though that's a very nice battery-op camera that can be had reasonably affordable as well.
EDIT: You'll be in full manual mode on most affordable 16mm rigs, but I think you will find 16mm to be more forgiving than S8 in many ways...
Good luck!
Chris
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MovieStuff
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Do yourself a favor and get a Canon Scoopic 16mm. The loading could not be easier or faster for a non-cartridge camera. Nice, sharp 6x zoom and it has beam-splitter viewing, just like a super 8 camera. In fact, in many ways it is just a big version of a super 8 camera. They are a joy to shoot with.
Roger
Roger
I would ditto the Canon Scoopic - the later models M.
If you want compact, though manual only, try the old Kodak K100 windup.
I never had one, but an old Marine island campaign photographer swore by them: "Every guy in my outfit that was killed was using a B&H Filmo, shot in the head. With the K100 you can see what's going on around you."
...ought to count for something, especially if you are vacationing in South Central, LA.
Cheers, alan
If you want compact, though manual only, try the old Kodak K100 windup.
I never had one, but an old Marine island campaign photographer swore by them: "Every guy in my outfit that was killed was using a B&H Filmo, shot in the head. With the K100 you can see what's going on around you."
...ought to count for something, especially if you are vacationing in South Central, LA.
Cheers, alan
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natxo
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from s8 to 16h
I´ve got a reflex bolex and a beaulieu r16, and both work fine. The Bolex is a really impressive mechanichal work, but the reflex viewfinder -at least mine- is poor, you´ve to get the aperture fully open to focus.
Years before start filming in S8, my first 16mm experiencie was with a bolex, and I really love the camera, because its threading system makes the camera loading really easy for everyone, and is ideal for hand helding.
For the Beaulieu, I like the automatic exposure meter, and you don´t have worry about charging the motor manually.
Any of them can be a good option to start shooting 16mm. Also a Filmo. I don´t know the scoopic, sorry.
Years before start filming in S8, my first 16mm experiencie was with a bolex, and I really love the camera, because its threading system makes the camera loading really easy for everyone, and is ideal for hand helding.
For the Beaulieu, I like the automatic exposure meter, and you don´t have worry about charging the motor manually.
Any of them can be a good option to start shooting 16mm. Also a Filmo. I don´t know the scoopic, sorry.
Although the K3 is a nice camera, I'm not sure if it would be ideal as a 'travel camera.' For one thing, it is quite heavy. And I think you may be deceiving yourself by thinking that the K3 is similar in size to your Sankyo super 8. The K3 is considerably larger than any super 8 camera. For a really compact size, you could look at those really old 16mm cameras that took 50 feet of film but the short running times would be a pain!
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gianni1
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The Scoopic is very nice, as is the Bolex. I like the Elmo's and BELL&HOWELL 16mm camera. The 70DR with three lenses is nice, the 240 with a single lens is nice if you get the wide and tele adaptor lenses. I think you'll better off getting a heavy tripod to keep in the trunk (boot) of the car. I just finished online editing a 60 second Kodachrome home movie shot a few weeks ago on the 70 DR. I home telecined it yesterday. I'll upload it somewhere soon.
The Scoopic is kinda big, gets heavy after a while without a tripod and it needs batteries. I enjoy the windup 70DR, which is a bit smaller and is a wind up and can be hand cranked if you don't like winding (on a tripod). They both are kind of heavy though. The best for the energy conscious is the B&H 240. A full wind seems to last a whole minute, almost a third of the roll. It's also very small and fits into an Iomega Zip drive padded shoulder bag, with three film cans, two adapter lenses and light meter.
It feels like the 240 was made for 16mm home movies. These 16mm cameras don't cost much more (on Ebay) than very nice Super 8 cameras. Someday I hope to get quiet 400' magazine camera.. or maybe an Arriflex. If it they didn't have funny film magazines, I would have gotten one of them small 16mm Soviet made Russian cameras.
Click on the photo of the 240 below to visit this site's gallery to see some of the cameras that we've uploaded pix to...
Gianni 8)
The Scoopic is kinda big, gets heavy after a while without a tripod and it needs batteries. I enjoy the windup 70DR, which is a bit smaller and is a wind up and can be hand cranked if you don't like winding (on a tripod). They both are kind of heavy though. The best for the energy conscious is the B&H 240. A full wind seems to last a whole minute, almost a third of the roll. It's also very small and fits into an Iomega Zip drive padded shoulder bag, with three film cans, two adapter lenses and light meter.
It feels like the 240 was made for 16mm home movies. These 16mm cameras don't cost much more (on Ebay) than very nice Super 8 cameras. Someday I hope to get quiet 400' magazine camera.. or maybe an Arriflex. If it they didn't have funny film magazines, I would have gotten one of them small 16mm Soviet made Russian cameras.
Click on the photo of the 240 below to visit this site's gallery to see some of the cameras that we've uploaded pix to...
Gianni 8)
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Jim Carlile
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Check out the Kodak K-100. Nice viewfinder, simple enough, easy to set exposure, you can even guesstimate, long wind up, great lenses. There's alot of good cheap 16mm cameras-- if you want reflex viewing that's much more $$, but you don't really need it. Same with auto-exposure. Most old 16mm home movies never had it.
Imperative: whatever you look at, make sure it will run single perf film. Availability of double perf is very very limited these days.
The macho version...
Imperative: whatever you look at, make sure it will run single perf film. Availability of double perf is very very limited these days.
The macho version...
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thebigidea
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A non-reflex Bolex is wonderfully cheap and gets a lot of bang for the buck... i've been using mine for over a decade, and it was used for a further half century before me by who knows who. It looks like complete shit after a million battles in crappy weather with crappier scripts but still runs beautifully.
The scoopic is nice for somebody who doesn't want to bother with exposure, I used to borrow them from a TA at NYU on weekends - but pricier on ebay with working batteries... and though I refused to even TRY to understand f-stops for years somehow, considering it some arcane algebra crossed with alchemy - its actually rather simple. Batteries are no fun when you're doing stuff outdoors tho, and on nonsync work the hand crank is perfectly fine and ends up getting you all those shots you would've had but for the damn batteries running down. On the downside you lose all the shots you would've had but for screaming "I hafta crank it! Just freeze! Hold on a sec!" every 40 seconds. In retrospect... ummm... I hafta go lay down and reconsider my whole life now.
Cheap Keystones are damn simple to use and put out surprisingly good results... i've had them around as a backup b-cam for fx and stunts stuff, and I end up choosing its shots over a much more expensive camera frequently...
On the budget side, the Russian stuff looks damn cheap and sturdy but i've never messed with them... I love the Quarz S8/DS8/8mm gear tho.
In the end, all of them will give you fantastic films and your eyes are gonna explode when you project those first few reels. They aren't very intimidating despite the jargon, pick up something on ebay, a few rolls of film, give it a shot one weekend. Jumping up to sync sound 400 foot mag cameras can be an intimidating, expensive leap, but a crankup nonreflex 16mm job is not much more complicated than your S8 camera...
Hurry up and get that kid in college so he can get you a 30% discount! You'll need it.
The scoopic is nice for somebody who doesn't want to bother with exposure, I used to borrow them from a TA at NYU on weekends - but pricier on ebay with working batteries... and though I refused to even TRY to understand f-stops for years somehow, considering it some arcane algebra crossed with alchemy - its actually rather simple. Batteries are no fun when you're doing stuff outdoors tho, and on nonsync work the hand crank is perfectly fine and ends up getting you all those shots you would've had but for the damn batteries running down. On the downside you lose all the shots you would've had but for screaming "I hafta crank it! Just freeze! Hold on a sec!" every 40 seconds. In retrospect... ummm... I hafta go lay down and reconsider my whole life now.
Cheap Keystones are damn simple to use and put out surprisingly good results... i've had them around as a backup b-cam for fx and stunts stuff, and I end up choosing its shots over a much more expensive camera frequently...
On the budget side, the Russian stuff looks damn cheap and sturdy but i've never messed with them... I love the Quarz S8/DS8/8mm gear tho.
In the end, all of them will give you fantastic films and your eyes are gonna explode when you project those first few reels. They aren't very intimidating despite the jargon, pick up something on ebay, a few rolls of film, give it a shot one weekend. Jumping up to sync sound 400 foot mag cameras can be an intimidating, expensive leap, but a crankup nonreflex 16mm job is not much more complicated than your S8 camera...
Hurry up and get that kid in college so he can get you a 30% discount! You'll need it.
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audadvnc
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My favorite low end 16mm camera is the B&H Filmo 70DR- it's simple, utilitarian, virtually unbreakable and takes good images. The Bolex H16 has more features like single frame for animation. The Russian K3 camera has a good rep as Soviet cameras go, but be prepared for iffy quality control. Kodak's K-100 is a great camera with a 45 second wind. And of course, the Arriflex S16 is the cat's pajamas if you can find one in good shape. I've never used a Scoopic, but it looks like a good camera too. Heck, just go get any old 16mm camera and use it for awhile, then decide if it's to your liking.
I don't mind hand-cranked cameras; the scene you can't shoot in 30 seconds is probably longer than your audience would tolerate anyway.
As for war movie shooting, I don't think I'd go for 16mm; more likely a cell phone I could hold over my head (while running hard in the opposite direction). Did you know the Rolliflex Twin Lens Reflex camera was invented by a couple young German soldiers who, in the trenches of WW1, dreamed up the idea of a camera with a periscope viewer, so they could keep their heads down while filming in battle.
I don't mind hand-cranked cameras; the scene you can't shoot in 30 seconds is probably longer than your audience would tolerate anyway.
As for war movie shooting, I don't think I'd go for 16mm; more likely a cell phone I could hold over my head (while running hard in the opposite direction). Did you know the Rolliflex Twin Lens Reflex camera was invented by a couple young German soldiers who, in the trenches of WW1, dreamed up the idea of a camera with a periscope viewer, so they could keep their heads down while filming in battle.
Robert Hughes
