New Super 8 cartridge - and Ektachrome 100D from Kodak?

[Juergen]

Here is an excerpt from smallformat 3/2007. The new issue will be shipped in 2 weeks. The Editorial will be published free for every filmshooting.com reader. Hope you are interested in subscribing to smallformat :roll:

Do fairy tales come true?

Some fairy tales are cruel. The big bad wolf eats the grandmother – as in Red Riding Hood. Or a girl is held prisoner and must serve the bad witch – like The Wizard of Oz. One does not wish these fairy tales to become true at all.

Another fantastic tale is the quest for a better Super 8 cartridge. A cartridge that does not jam, does not stick, which simply never causes stress. Nonetheless, this story seems too good to be true. Now the tale of a newly designed Super 8 cartridge is being told once again. And the storyteller is Gottfried Klose from Bielefeld (Germany). He once loaded Fuji Velvia 50D under the Cinevia name into Kodak Super 8 cartridges – and had only misfortune. One or another complaint was always raised, because the film did not always run perfectly through the cartridges. Is it because of lubrication? Is it because of film stiffness? Does the difficultly lie with the awkwardly designed cartridge in general? No matter, now a new approach is being tried. Klose and his GK-Film company promise to bring an improved Super 8 cartridge to market before the year’s end. It will be a new design, which leads the film more smoothly through the coaxial cartridge and therefore always guarantees a flawless run. One can register at http://www.cinevia.eu to be informed by e-mail when this fairy tale comes true.

Another dream in Super 8 communities worldwide is Kodak Ektachrome 100D, which many see as the best alternative to our dearly departed Kodachrome 40. Unfortunately, Kodak has only offered Ektachrome 64T in Super 8 up to now. They left it to other companies to cut down Ektachrome 100D and load it into Super 8 cartridges. Pro8mm (USA) offers this stock as Super 8/85 and Wittner Cinetec (Germany) as Wittnerchrome 100D.

Now it seems there is a glimmer from Kodak that fairy tales can still come true in the house of the (once) yellow giant. That is, if a customer is willing to place US $50,000 on the yellow giant’s table. The yellow giant would then pace back and forth a little, grumble, and consider whether he could – maybe, maybe – load Ektachrome 100D into the Super 8 cartridge. And look at this: Someone is willing to step into the clutches of the yellow giant. Daniel Wittner of Wittner Cinetec found himself wondering why he should continue to make a great deal of work for himself packaging the film if Kodak can do it much better and less expensively. His company indicated to Kodak that they are willing to place an order of over US $50,000 to purchase Super 8 cartridges loaded with Ektachrome 100D.

The time has arrived to see whether this fairy tale about the yellow giant and the fine-grained Super 8 reversal film will come true.

Jürgen Lossau

[Angus]

Fantastic news on both counts....sometimes fairytales do come true.


There was this bloke in the pub who said, "Brian Wilson's gonna complete SMiLE and tour it..."

[CHAS]

this is great news indeed. I wonder if Spectra can cut a deal with them to get some of these Kodak carts for the US market or if they already are working on it. Anything to avoid Pro 8mm...

[kentek]

Could we each put in, say, $5 into a pool to ensure Kodak can get a $50k order?

[Juergen]

My understanding is, when Kodak accepts this initial deal with Wittner, the product then is on the Kodak list and everybody can order it.

[T-Scan]

My understanding is, when Kodak accepts this initial deal with Wittner, the product then is on the Kodak list and everybody can order it.

That's good news, but i'll believe it when I see it. I've been teased with the notion of 100D in carts for 3 years now. I hope Wittner can break even easily if Kodak is also selling it.

[Blue Audio Visual]

My understanding is, when Kodak accepts this initial deal with Wittner, the product then is on the Kodak list and everybody can order it.

It seems inconceivable that it would happen any other way. If Wittner was the only source, all the other European (and worldwide) Kodak subsidiaries would be screaming down the phone to the planners at Rochester asking why their profits from sales of 64T have been haemorrhaged.

But therein lies another problem: what's in it for Wittner if they have to invest $50k so that other dealers can just buy it in small quantities at list minus discount? For Daniel Wittner to stay in business he's got to consider his own best interests (and quite rightly so IMO), he's not some kind of Super 8 philanthropist who would willingly and recklessly screw up his cashflow for the greater benefit of his competitors and Super 8 users worldwide.

Bart

[super8man]

Gee, I have 100D in my freezer right now. Regular 8mm rules! Who said that?

[Macnessa]

I just took a look at my first roll of 100D shot in super 8 (courtesy of Pro8) and it truly is a beautiful stock, better then Kodachrome in my view.

Come on, Kodak. You can do it...

[Muckymuck]

I'm amazed they need a $50K investment when all the polls show that they would actually sell more film if they replaced 64T with 100D. It can't be that difficult can it? Just load the 100D stock instead of 64T and change the numbering on the computer programme which prints the boxes and labels- easy! As for notching, just use the carts which come off the same production line as Plus-X.

[downix]

I have a question tho...

How many carts would you be getting for that $50,000?

[aj]

Somewhere between 5000-7500 pieces.

Wittner sells these likely in 6 months. Extrapolating from K40 times. And depending on the market-share of the s8-pie is going to get.

[downix]

Well, if Wittner does, I'll buy some carts myself to celebrate, from them and damn the shipping cost.

[Angus]

I'm amazed they need a $50K investment when all the polls show that they would actually sell more film if they replaced 64T with 100D.

The bean counters in suits need to be 110% convinced that Kodak won't end up losing money....hence their "deal" that if somebody commits to $50k's worth then they'll produce it.

They are justifiably worried that if they offer both 64T and 100D in super 8 that each will affect sales of the other, and that if the total sales of 64T at the moment is x carts per month that the sales if they produce both will be x/2 of 64T and x/2 of 100D...and that might not be enough to justify either's place in the Kodak portfolio....

[wado1942]

What I don't understand is why they came up with a non T-grain 64T in the first place particularly since I heard it from a Kodak engineer herself that they didn't want to produce a super-8 stock that wasn't going to be available in 16mm and 35mm as well. So they invented a stock that's useless across the board that's only available in super-8. I'd much rather have a T-grain 100T so I could shoot indoors and outdoors rather than 100D which is only good outdoors or 64T that's not good anywhere.

Anyways, new carts would be good. Let's see if they'll be more stable.