Some S8 100D Frame Grabs

[super8man]

Why do you advise that you use Vegas and NOT Cinecap for the speed changes/pulldowns? If I read that correctly, you think speed changes in Vegas are better than Cinecap? Curious for a better explanation.

Cheers,
Mike

[MoonstruckProductions]

Hi Mike,

I think Cinecap is a great capture program. And for people who do not have an NLE, it does a great job of applying speed changes. But in all honesty, I have found Vegas does just as good, if not better, a job.

Here are a couple frame grabs. The first is from the Cinecap speed change and the second from Vegas.

click images for larger picture.




As you can see, there is hardly any difference. I personally feel Vegas has less artifacts. But that's just me.

With that said, you could use Cinecap just as easily. But, since T-Scan's goal was to get a clean frame grab without pulldown blur or interlace artifacts, the easiest way is to load the original captured file into Vegas before applying the speed change and take the frame grabs. That way you are getting every frame nice and clear. Then, since he is using Vegas, just apply the speed change there.

But, I wasn't knocking Cinecap.

I hope everyone has a great holiday weekend!

-Scott

[MovieStuff]

CineCap will use the industry standard pulldown patterns, which can be useful, and it will also batch process. However, when using CineCap, you really need to load a decent codec on your computer. The default Windows DV coded sucks just awful and can really soften your image. The MainConcept codec is much better and keeps your image sharp. So if one of the samples used the Windows DV codec and the other used whatever is inherent in Vegas, then that might make a big difference in comparative quality.

Roger

[super8man]

OK, well I am glad I have been using the MainConcept codec in my projects. I shall still have to do a test run to see which is better on my applications (Vegas 4 vs Cinecap).

Cheers,
Mike

[T-Scan]

When it comes down to rendering files, I couldn't be happier then i am with Cinecap and Vegas. Im at the point where editing in Vegas is like playing a video game, so many tools and so easy to use.

But to get back on track, the 64T is not a bad film at all. I still like the change of pillow cases from K40... but 100D has the strong aspects of both stocks without either of their short comings.

[cineandy]

Clever use of 100d, keep the image big, its the only thing this stock is good for. Filming distants subject shows the flaws in the stock, ie, lack of resolving power. Fuji 50 beats 100d by miles in terms of sharpness. Even on a rank mk3 old k40 looks sharper than 100d.

[Patrick]

Interesting comments about the sharpness of 100D. Although the colours are certainly vibrant and punchy, I found the sharpness of 100D a little lacking. Curiously, when I exposed 100D underwater with my Eumig Nautica (using only natural light) I got a bit of an unpleasant greenish cast to my footage. It wasnt the typical monochrome blue that you get in available light underwater - it looked more green. When this film stock is exposed on land, the colours are much nicer.

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

The default Windows DV coded sucks just awful and can really soften your image. The MainConcept codec is much better and keeps your image sharp.

How about compability?
Can someone who has no computerknowledge at all playback a MainConcept DV-encoded AVI file?

Would they need to download the MainConcept codec, or would it make no difference at all in playability and compability (if comparing MS-DV codec and MainC DV codec).

[O. Knights]

hi,

Interesting to hear about peoples impression that 100D is a tad soft, I have also found this on my 15 carts of Wittner I have shot over the last year, lovely grain and colours but I'm always sent into a panic that my eyepiece has been miss set or my lenses are out some how, then I transfer some 64t and it's sharp as a tack? upon more inspection The 100D just seems a tad softer all over compared to 64t, this is regarding SD transfered material to PAL DV, projection of the film could show a very different story.
Just my own findings....

Oliver

[MovieStuff]

The default Windows DV coded sucks just awful and can really soften your image. The MainConcept codec is much better and keeps your image sharp.

How about compability?
Can someone who has no computerknowledge at all playback a MainConcept DV-encoded AVI file?

Absolutely. It plays universally on all NLEs.

Would they need to download the MainConcept codec, or would it make no difference at all in playability and compability (if comparing MS-DV codec and MainC DV codec).

You need to download the MainConcept codec if you are going to produce a file of some kind and don't want to use the defaul MicroSoft codec (appropriately named, by the way).

It's like this: When you record from, say, a Canon miniDV camcorder into your computer for editing, you are essentially using the Canon codec. Likewise, if you were using a Canopus ADVC 100 analog to digital convertor, then you would be recording in the Canopus codec. The same with Panasonic, Sony, etc. All these companies have their own version of the DV codec and some are better than others, sharpness wise. If you put any of those clips on something like the Matrox RTX edit timeline and export the movie as another clip, the Matrox will naturally use its own Matrox DV codec for the new file compression. So the original file will be Canon (if that's what you used to feed into your computer) and the new file would be Matrox. The new file will not necessarily be made using the same codec that the original clip was created with. But both will play the same on your NLE. I am sure that Vegas is the same way.

But, unlike a lot of NLEs, when you render your speed change in CineCap, you have a choice of what codec you wish to use for recompression of the new file. The default is the MicroSoft DV codec but CineCap will find all the codecs on your computer and they will appear in a drop down menu in the settings. If you choose MainConcept codec, then that is what CineCap will use to create the new file with the speed change. This is important because you could be using a very sharp Canopus, Canon, Sony or Panasonic codec to capture with and then slaughter your image with a lousy MicroSoft codec during the speed render compression. That is why I suggest people use the MainConcept codec, to keep the image sharp. But the final file will be just as universal as the original and the user will not be required to download anything special to play it.

Roger

[Mitch Perkins]

This is important because you could be using a very sharp Canopus, Canon, Sony or Panasonic codec to capture with and then slaughter your image with a lousy MicroSoft codec during the speed render compression.

This is very interesting (free) info - thanks for taking the time.

Now, if I might further impose, does this apply only to speed change renders, or across the board to things like dissolves, opacity, and generally exporting clips?

Mitch

[super8man]

Since we are meandering this thread a bit, when I go into dodcap and select something other than "SAME AS FILE" for the codec and select MAINCONCEPT (sonic) I get an error message that states "was not able to render final speed change graph" - what's that mean? Other selections in my drop down box give me a "unable to connect video compressor input pin."

Hmmm, maybe I should continue with my "same as file" option and no interlacing for the sharpest pulldown from my workprinter capture...

Cheers,
Mike

[MovieStuff]

This is important because you could be using a very sharp Canopus, Canon, Sony or Panasonic codec to capture with and then slaughter your image with a lousy MicroSoft codec during the speed render compression.

This is very interesting (free) info - thanks for taking the time.

Now, if I might further impose, does this apply only to speed change renders, or across the board to things like dissolves, opacity, and generally exporting clips?

Mitch

Yes. When you simply use "my computer" and copy a file, you are just copying the data with no change. But when you export from your timeline to create a new file, you are decompressing and recompressing the information and the recompression requires a codec of some kind. On Matrox, it will use the Matrox codec with no other choice (a good thing that Matrox has a good codec!). If you are using Vegas, then it will be the Vegas codec, etc. This applies to speed changes, dissolves, color corrections, anything where the file has to be recompressed into another video file for recording or playback from the timeline. Some cheaper edit programs may just use the Microsoft DV codec, since it is native to any Windows machine, but the Microsoft codec bites.

Since we are meandering this thread a bit, when I go into dodcap and select something other than "SAME AS FILE" for the codec and select MAINCONCEPT (sonic) I get an error message that states "was not able to render final speed change graph" - what's that mean?

It means that you probably don't have the actual MainConcept DV codec on your computer. You have to actually purchase it. Costs $54 and downloads instantly and then you should be able to do what you want.

http://www.mainconcept.com/site/index.php?id=771

Hmmm, maybe I should continue with my "same as file" option and no interlacing for the sharpest pulldown from my workprinter capture...

If you are not using interlacing, then the files are created by just copying data and duplicating fields with no recompression. Using MainConcept will not be a sacrifice in sharpness and the interlaced pulldown frames will let the action play smoother, unless you are going to watch it on a progressive scan computer monitor.

Roger

[super8man]

Thanks,

Since I use the progressive scan mode on my DVD player I can avoid this whole interlaced business as I have been doing.

CHeers,
Mike

[MovieStuff]

Thanks,

Since I use the progressive scan mode on my DVD player I can avoid this whole interlaced business as I have been doing.

I believe that only works for 24fps footage. If you have footage shot at 16 or 18fps, then I don't think the progressive scan mode really kicks in. Could be wrong but I think that is correct.

Roger