Non reflex Bolex and single perf film?

[Patrick]

Although I have long lusted after a Reflex Bolex H16, I am now considering purchasing a non reflex Bolex for some time lapse applications and landscape scenics. Though I am wondering if the later models (just prior to the reflex models) have a single row of sprocket teeth for single perf film? I am assuming that the older models accepted double perf film only.

[vidwerk]

My Non-reflex bolex takes single perf film. I think the model number is somewhere in the late 80,000.
vidwerk.

[Bolex Collector]

Hey Patrick,
Most of the H16 cameras you'll come across have a single row of sprocket teeth. Only the earliest models had two rows (1935 to early 1950s) and even those could be ordered, or later modified, with single-tooth sprockets at the time.

By the time the internal frame counter was introduced on the H16, single-tooth sprockets were standard.

Just a suggestion here: look for something with a serial number higher than 100,401. The film transport mechanism was improved on those models, with steadier double-claw registration. Models before that have only a single cam claw that pulls down the film during exposure; not quite as steady as the later models. (for H8 cameras, that number is 98,701).

Michael

(EDIT: Serial Number 76471 and higher have single sprocket teeth.)

[BK]

I have a H16 S. Believe it is the last model of the non reflex cameras and has all the refinements including a flat base, it doesn't have a variable shutter though.

Prefer a non reflex Bolex myself since you can achieve the best image quality without the prism in the optical path.

Bill

[Patrick]

Yea I heard about the improved pull down movement on later H16 models. I will definitely get one of those.

[bakanosaru]

I have a H16 S. Believe it is the last model of the non reflex cameras and has all the refinements including a flat base, it doesn't have a variable shutter though.

Prefer a non reflex Bolex myself since you can achieve the best image quality without the prism in the optical path.

Bill

This is something I've never understood why is it that none of the non reflex bolexes I have ever seen had variable shutters?

[Bolex Collector]

This is something I've never understood why is it that none of the non reflex bolexes I have ever seen had variable shutters?

Good question. My only guess is that Bolex left the VS off the later non-reflex models to offer it as a lower priced or simplified option to the H16 Reflex. I know they took the filter-slot option out of later non-reflex cameras for that reason, at least.

A few aftermarket companies offered a variable shutter installation on non-reflex H16 cameras - Stevens engineering and Pelligrini were the most common. But I don't think Bolex ever offered that modification themselves.

Michael

[Patrick]

Oops! Ive just figured something out. Previously, I was attracted to a non reflex Bolex because one could use the 'critical eye focuser' to compose and focus through the lens while setting up the shot. However, it's just occurred to me that there would still be parallax error using this method because the lens is in a different position on the turret when the film is being exposed, compared to when it's at the top. Damn! So with a non reflex Bolex, is there any way that you can compose accurately through the lens prior to filming - apart from using a lens with a built-in reflex viewfinder? I guess one option could be some sort of rack over device...

[David M. Leugers]

Patrick

You just answered your own question, sort of. There is a Bolex rack-over which comes up from time to time on eBay. It very accurately allows one to frame and focus through the lens for critical shots, but only with the round bottom Bolex H cameras. A flat bottom Bolex will not work with the rack-over because it will not fit.
There is a gate prism focusing device which is the utmost on framing precision since you insert the device into the gate itself to view on a ground glass exactly what the gate sees. Of course, you can only do this with no film in the camera so you would have to use it in a static setting (no problem for time lapse use) and frame and focus the lens, then load the camera with film and shoot.

Good luck with your film!


David M. Leugers

[Patrick]

This rack over sounds like an interesting device. Is it very bulky? I assume that footage would still be reasonably stable with that thing mounted between the camera and the tripod.

"Good luck with your film!"

Thanks. It's an ongoing project and I'm probably going to get a workprint made from the first negative film that I exposed recently.

[David M. Leugers]

I assume that footage would still be reasonably stable with that thing mounted between the camera and the tripod.

Yes, I thought it looked a little rickety, but like most things Bolex the quality is there.
Make sure the camera you use it with has a good viewfinder on the top right hand side. I think they call it the eyelevel finder. In a controlled shooting environment such as what you are undertaking, using the rack-over is easy and kinda fun. Just like the pros of the past racking over their Mitchell 35mm cameras... 8)


David M. Leugers

[missingshow]

I know this is a little old to be posting but I found this forum realy usefull for advice, so I thought i'd share this. I have a non-reflex h16 with a flat base and this week got a rack over. I know officailly they don't work together but it's really easy to sort that problem out. I bout a small extender that slightly raises the camera off the base of the rack over by about three inches, this alows the flat bottom h16 tofit onto the rack over. I shot a film with it last week and it worked great! definatley recomend getting one to non relex h16 users! I got mine for $15 but they can go for alot on ebay. Good luck

[ccortez]

Well, the parallax isn't so bad if everything is in good shape, but I guess if you're doing animation or something where framing is critical you might need the critical focus thing. I've got it on my non-reflex H16 but I don't find that I use it much.

[Mmechanic]

Almost nine years have elapsed. The problem still exists.
Nobody with Paillard had thought of that a professional
amateur* would want to use an H-16 S for close-up or
macro work.

Nr. 107288 - Kopie.JPG

I have bought myself this 1955 H-16 and I hate that rackover
device. Why?

Because Paillard failed in making a reliable support for the
camera. It works very precisely, I measured the distance
between low and high—it’s correct to half a thou. Yet, there
is play in the rail, the camera wiggles, too much for my taste.

Since I also have an H-16 S of the latest series, big base and
1-1 shaft for synch motors, I dream of a rackover made for
these models. If it would make part of a geared head, I would
feel in heaven.

Anybody else in need of a such a head? I have a workshop.
Guess we would look at a four-figure price.
________________

* Coined already in 1937

[David M. Leugers]

How critical is it for focusing while viewing the exact image area through the viewfinder I think is the question. Rack over is very nice for accurately framing and focusing (the Auricon 1200 is superb), but it can be worked around for typical framing of the shot. Focusing can be done as usual by rotating the lens into the focus position. Even though the image is being viewed up and to the right, you get enough of the actual taking image area for accurate focusing. If your side finder is accurate top to bottom (parallax issue is side to side) one could make a very sturdy side movement rack over to place the side finder exactly in the position of the taking lens. The side finder is set on infinity to remove any angle (pointing straight ahead) , rack over to frame looking through side finder, rack back into shooting position. Set side finder to focus point to remove parallax based on lens focus or tape measure reading from camera to subject distance. If one needs more critical framing I would use the Bolex gate focus device to set up the shot. After saying all that, a really good rack over that could handle the flat bottomed Bolex cameras would be ideal. Like Simon, I have a Bolex H S 16mm camera, mine a 1966 vintage. My favorite Bolex 16mm camera.