Camera w/ a powerful lens

[davidpratt660@hotmail.com]

Okay, this is going to be my first movie camera. I know the film basics, shutter speed, aperture. I need a camera with a powerful lens, somewhere around the 70-90mm range. The only ones I have found are the Canon 1218, and a nikon r10.

[crimson]

beaulieus can take C mount lens. Since most C mount are for 16mm coverage, you basically double them their zoom power when using it with super 8 camera like the beaulieus.

There is also the Bauer 715 XL with the Angeniuex 6-90mm lens. This lens can be found seperately (though very hard) to be used with the Beaulieus.

there is also the Leicina Specail with the Leica M mount. Since M mounts are for 35mm Leica cameras you will get a 6-7x factor. A 10-60mm lens is about 60-360mm + .

I suggest really buying the lens for the sharpenss, color and contrast instead of zoom power. The diffference between 70 and 90mm is not worth the quality IMHO.

[wahiba]

There was another super8 camera, I think it began with an N that would take 35mm camera lenses.

Anyone else remember this? any info? or am I getting old?

[Pedro]

The very best lens I ever used is the Angenieux 1:1,2/6-80mm, available as a c-mount power zoom lens for Beaulieu 4008/5008 of 6008/7008/9008 "special". Very rare are the models with "Beaulieu-mount", fitting to 6008/7008/9008 standard versions. The "big brother" of that lens is the 1:1,2/6-90 mm, available with Beaulieu-mount and of the same quality & construction like the 6-80.
Totally different are the actual Angenieux lenses for Beaulieu, like the 1:1,4/6-90mm. The quality (contrast/resolution) is a little bit inferior, compared with the older 1:1,2 lenses but easy available and still far better than the Schneider 1:1,4/6-70.
The Angenieux 1:1,2 models provide an incredible contrast ans sharpness at any iris and zoom setting. Open stop is as good as mid range iris. The high contrast makes focus setting easyer. The projected films show a much better sharpness than with any other lens I have used.

The 6008/7008/9008 models can be modifyed to version "special" in order to accept c-mount lenses with power zoom and power iris. Modifying a camera & buying a 6-80 lens is cheaper than buying a 1:1,2/6-90 lens.

When applying another lens to the Beaulieu cameras, c-mount our Beaulieu-mount, it is VERY IMPORTANT to let the colimnation of the new lens adjust to the conditions of the body. This is a quick and rather cheap job for a Beaulieu service technician, and only after this adjustment, the real lens power will be shown.

Pedro

[mIke]

There was another super8 camera, I think it began with an N ...

Nalcom FTL ?

[wahiba]

Thats it, Nalcom, knew it began with an N, Ta.

[ulrichsd]

Okay, this is going to be my first movie camera. I know the film basics, shutter speed, aperture. I need a camera with a powerful lens, somewhere around the 70-90mm range. The only ones I have found are the Canon 1218, and a nikon r10.

What are you planning on shooting? The reason I ask is because the Canon 1218 (I think you might mean 1214) only shoots at 18 fps, as opposed to the industry standard 24 fps. 18 fps may be a problem if you have a lot of movement in what you are filming, or plan to transfer to video.

Good luck.
Scott

[supa_ate_sixteen]

No, he is correct. The Canon 1218 is the model, and it does have 24fps. The camera is like a radar gun looking Canon (canon literally not the brand). I would say sharpness is best and to go with a Schnieder or Anginuex over Canon glass. The 1218 has very limited features as well but I must say its suprisingly quiet.

[S8 Booster]

Canon lenses, at least 814 & 1014 XL-S models are significantly superior to at least some Angineux lenses as they resolves detail in dark/low light areas far better and are totally free of vignetting all the way from macro to full tele (Ref: Canon factory specs).

Angineux 6-90 lenses offer visual vignetting visible by projecting, confirmed by experienced filmmakers.

The unique coating of the Canon lenses and extremely precise exposure control reduces grain and resolves dark areas so well that the projected images are looking much more "movielike" and non K40 with k40 film. The Canons´s excellent lens & accurate exposure control seem to reduce grain too, close to below visual levels when projected on a Bauer T610.

The 814 & 1014 XL-S cams got their very advanced light metering system off the Canon A-1 35mm SLR and by using a extremely fast, accurate and complex control system it sets the aperture servomotor so fast that the system resolves PAL TV 25 fps scanlines cycles, i.e sets the aperture differently 50 times a second. Makes hell of a noise but what a proof. Do not do it for long?

Having no memory effect in the light metering cells/system and an extremely fast aperture control it is almost impossible to see that it adjusts the aperture in Auto mode on projected films, even at pans or tilts from light to darker areas and it hardly adjusts at all when pan or tilt more speckled but homogen areas because it obviously measures all the image area.

Beualieu images are usually sharp but grainy (bad & inaccurate exposure control?) and many B models have had an manufacturing errors & low quality light metering cells, ref Pedros posting on required modifications earlier.

Also cameras with fixed lenses do not require lens collimation & adjustments to get optimal images the same way that B cams do need.

Expexting all high end cameras of most makes with fixed lenses to be precisely adjusted off the factory once (and for all) and then they do normally not need more adjustments.

B cams with interchangable lenses seem much more vulnerable and will often require readjustment at least when switching to a new or different lens. Readjustment might be reuired to get optimum performance.

High End Canons are a safe bet, also on reliability.

Surely there are other very good alternatives with fixed lenses too.

Anyway, creative shooting!

Check: http://www.mondofoto.com/cameras/Canon_1218_4B.JPG

Some Data:
Canon 1218 Autozoom
Year: 68-74
Weight: 2000 g
Lens: Canon zoom 1,8 / 7,5 - 90 mm
Microprism Focusing
Auto / Manual Zoom with 2 Speeds
Frame rates: 18, (24?) 40 + single frame
Shutter degree: Var.
Manual / Auto Exposure
Fades
Remote control socket
Cable release socket
No sound
5 X 1,5V batteries + 2x 1,3V (M20) for light meter
Made in Japan
Original price in England (in the year of introduction): £382
The first super-8 with 12 x zoom.
Recently paid in eBay net auction: $326 eBay7/99 $233 eBay10/99 $194 Bay3/00
http://www.mondofoto.com/cameras/Canon_1218_4B.JPG

[Pedro]

The Angenieux 6-80 lens does not show any vignetting or any other quality loss under any conditions, even the very important open stop condition for low light applications. (projected with Elmo GS). The coating of that lens is totally professional. Even shots against the light, with parts of sun beams visible, don´t show any iris reflections. When I fist did a shot like that, I was even a little bit dissapointed, because I am used to see that iris reflections when shooting against the light. The lens provides a constant opening over the zoom range, and only a very slight difference between geometrical and T-stops: T 1:1,4, geometrical 1:1,2!

The Schneider 6-70 lens shows already tolerable vignetting in 70 mm setting and is rather soft at open stop in 6 mm range.

The Angenieux 1:1,2/6-90 is like the 6-80, proffessional designed for all settings under any conditions, I have made test shots, too. It´s only more heavy to cary with.

The 1:1,4/6-90 is a cheeper construction, but I did not recognize any faults when watching films of other autors when projected with a Beaulieu HTI projector, all crisp-sharp.

The newer Beaulieu light meters are not as perfect as the older ones produced at a time where all the other hi-end cameras had been still in production. The latest Beaulieus are a great exeption in our time, and the special parts required become more and more difficult. Any other brand, even Canon, would have the same difficulties if thinking in continuing supporting the S8 format. So the diodes for the light meter. Therefore the results in automatic mode may be not so constant as in former times and require a more proffessional use of the camera (f.e. external light meters, light measuring instead of object measuring, working with fixed stop etc, or like I did, individual adjustment).

I dissagree totally with the direct relationship between Canon or other camera brands and film grain. The film grain is a typical characteristic of the film and the developing process itself and it´s appearance can only be slightly influenced with exposure.
The camera construction or shutter have not any effect at all on grain. Saturized colors in the film may show more grain than slightly overexposed areas, as more color requires more grains carrying that color information!
But this should be upon the user and not upon the individual characteristic of the auto exposure of a camera. Some prefer sharper, more saturized images, that can be obtained with a slight UNDER-exposuring, in order to avoid light reflection to neighbour grains. But most consumer cameras, my small Canon 514XL too, tend to over-exposure the film, in order to compensate weak consumer projectors. So it should be really upon the user, to decide what he wants.

The exchangeable Beaulieu lenses do not cause any trouble to the user, once the colimnation is adjusted. This system has only advantages. The camera connection works well, it´s like a fixed lens. The great advantage and one of the secrets of the unbeatable Bealieu sharpness is, that the iris is located in the optical centre of the lens and is a REAL iris, driven by a motor. Most S8 cameras do not have an iris, but some kind of cash, driven by an electric coil and darkening partly the amount of light. The regulation circuit of the 6008---9008 reacts super fast to any change of light condition, other than the older reglomatic circuit of 4008/5008 models, that is a little bit slower.
Basicly, a slower regualtion has more advantages than a too quick regulation characteristic, as it is able to avoid iris pumping by compensation of light peaks.
Only because of the exchangeable lens, I was able to shoot great scenes of the moon eclypse, filling the major part of the screen with the moon.

I worked since 1989 with my 6008 and had not any singular problem with it, until having it serviced and updated in 1999/2000. And I used it under rather rough conditions, on all my Brasil trips etc - no metal cases, but plastic shopping bags or local super markets, hiding the treasure.

For me, the greatest advantage of Beaulieu cameras is the viewfinder/shutter construction, equal to a SLR 35 mm camera. You can focus very precisely on the whole area of the ground glass. And only a precise focussing shows the qualities of a lens.
It´s ways quicker than split image and ways more exact than split image, does not depend on the structures of the object. I never had been successful in focusing moving objects with my former cameras with split image. I produced a lot of scenes that had been out of focus -> trash. Since using Beaulieu, nearly every scene turns out sharp and the S8 system became much more reliable for me. Because for my opinion, the key point of S8 is sharpness first.

Pedro

[Old Uncle Barry]

8O
A small but very significant factor that has been missed out with all those magnificent lenses/camera option listed is the use of adequate lens hoods.
To obtain even better images it is imperative in my experience that one uses the deepest lens hood you can without it causing any vignetting within the zoom ranges.Preferably,the square to oblong ones used by the professionals is best in my use of them.Any stray light falling on that front element will take away some of the careful composition/lighting you have worked hard to achieve.