does pro8mm.com really off set the lens on MAX 8?

[ALFREDO]

Pro8mm.com claims that they offset the lens on there MAX8, Do you think we are being misled by by pro8mm.com?

I think so! After exploring diffrent ways to offset the lens on the Beaulieu 4008, I found only one posible way and thats to offset the viewfinder, for them to offset the viewfinder and claim there offsetting the lens is misleading!

Did you max your gate? well here is the way to off set the lens as they claim there doing, remove left cover, on the front of the viewer there are two screws, one on the left side and one on the top, you will use the one on the left, when the gate is file down its done on the left side and the image is reflected in the viewer on the right, so open the screw a bit and this will move the frame over so now you dont have to adjust the camera to the frame but the frame to the shot. Makes sence? dont post a reply until you think about it and then tell me what you think! im not 100% sure that they really do it like this but I tried every posible way to off set the lens and it just cant be done! Pro8mm if your in here I challenge you to this!

all the information above is based on my opinon based on my own test results! Im open to arguments on the topic.

[Mitch Perkins]

Pro8mm.com claims that they offset the lens on there MAX8, Do you think we are being misled by by pro8mm.com?

Seems like a lot of labour for 1mm. Actually it seems impossible to "move" the mount and all those little components "over". Ever tried to "fix" a hole you drilled off-center? A fresh blank surface is the only way...

Meanwhile your mod sounds like it addresses the real problem: sighting/composing.

I see the camera/projector gate widening thingy as primarily a way to avoid "masking the mask that masks the mask", in telecine. One is then able to just mask the frame itself; you don't necessarily get to use a lot of the extra area for picture...

Mitch

[wado1942]

Actually, you get quite a bit more picture. When your picture is 5.5mm wide, an extra 1mm is A LOT! Let's say you want to shoot 16:9 on traditional super-8, you have 17mm square as a frame area. You had to cut out 25% of the image and throw it away. When you cut the gate wider, you get higher resolution and lower grain from the get go. But when you crop to 16:9, you have a total of 22.75mm square which is 25% more than S-8. You only had to cut out 10-15% (depending on the camera) of the frame area this way also.
Now some friends wanted me to mod their 4008 to SD-8 but when I took it apart, it looked like too much work so I turned down the job. But on my Canon 814E, it only took a half hour so it was well worth the time.

[Mitch Perkins]

Actually, you get quite a bit more picture. When your picture is 5.5mm wide, an extra 1mm is A LOT!

Absolutely, if it contains usable picture. Re-centering the lens is what seems like a lot of labour - and unnecessary, since as you say, your 814 worked out fine.

Now some friends wanted me to mod their 4008 to SD-8 but when I took it apart, it looked like too much work so I turned down the job. But on my Canon 814E, it only took a half hour so it was well worth the time.

Definitely.

Given that the extra image area is prone to vignetting and possibly scratching, the one advantage a widened gate can always be said to provide is the ability to mask just to the edge of usable picture.

Did you modify anything beyond widening the gate on the 814?

Mitch

[wado1942]

No. I just widened the gate and ran a couple of tests. Funny, on my 814, I seem to have almost the entire zoom range (10mm-max) while on my 1014, I'm much more limited (20mm-max). All I did was recut the gates on both. I'm thinking my 814 will be my main camera from now forward.

[aj]

Now some friends wanted me to mod their 4008 to SD-8 but when I took it apart, it looked like too much work so I turned down the job. But on my Canon 814E, it only took a half hour so it was well worth the time.

SD-8 is the large Beaulieu cartridge (Mickey Mouse ears)? How could one ever make a sound cartridge sized thing fit a silent camera? Hacksaw the bottom and the top?

[aj]

If the extra width is almost a millimeter then the center has to move half of that. If the mountain doesn't move then somebody (like mozes) has to move to the mountain. I.e. widen the holes in the gate metal base a bit and just pull it a bit in the opposite direction. Just use the play (plenty of it) in the S8 cartridge and camera claw-gate assembly.

Just re-aligning the viewfinder using the Baumgarten method should also be good. The center is then OK and mostly what is in the borders is't to all important. Otherwise start using super 16

[lord_rover]

SD-8 is the large Beaulieu cartridge (Mickey Mouse ears)? How could one ever make a sound cartridge sized thing fit a silent camera? Hacksaw the bottom and the top?

While you're theoretically right, I think by SD-8 he means super duper 8, i.e. a widened gate, while you are referring to the Beaulieu superdrive SD8/60

Regards,
Alex

[wado1942]

Yes, I mean Super-Duper-8, while it's a rediculous name, I refuse to let Pro8mm take credit away from the real inventors. Hence the abreviation, SD-8. Perhaps I should find a different way to say that.

I didn't know you could recenter the lens by loosening it and pulling it to the side. I wonder if that'll work for the 1014E. It's not nearly as easy to take apart as the 4008 though. Anyways, if it's that easy to move the lens with the 4008, it's hard to believe Pro8mm charges an extra $500 to do what's probably an hour & a half's extra work.

[aj]

I am not moving the lens (mountain) but the gate-plate (mozes) itself. Relative to the camera body. Only half a millimeter. The cartrdiges will still find and lock onto the gate-plate and its knobs. The claw has some play too and will follow the slit in the gate-plate.

[ALFREDO]

Theres a misleding reply here by aj (andre), this topic is about offsetting the viewfinder inside the camera body not offseting the gate, thats misleding information.

when you film with a wide gate the picture is offset, so by moving the viewfinder over a bit it will bring the frame into alignment, dont reply to this post if you dont know what your doing or talkng about! I been reading your replys and your way off the topic! for a senior member I would expect for you to know more then how you represent your self!

[Tom Doolittle]

I can't say what Pro8mm is doing, but it would not be too hard to have a supply of new mounts made up by a competent mahine shop. A good machinist could easily replicate the existing mount, but with an offset lens hole.

If I ever go "Super-Duper 8" with my Beaulieu this is what I would do. I'd probably omit the contacts for the zoom and auto exposure too.

As for re-centering the viewfinder, I have no idea. Good luck.

[christoph]

[...]dont reply to this post if you dont know what your doing or talkng about! I been reading your replys and your way off the topic!

i have my regular quibbles with aj myself, but his post totally makes sense (even though it probably introduces more problem than it solves, because i guess the pulldown claw doesnt move)
besides, if we all would only post if we know what we were talking about this forum would be nearly dead :P

for a senior member I would expect for you to know more then how you represent your self!

like, posting in all bold letters?

++ christoph ++

[aj]

Theres a misleding reply ... yadiyadiyadi

Oh dear, oh dear,
I'll assume you don't understand english too well. As you clearly don't write it too well either.

BTW
Not taking my english as a measure

And about presenting yourself you might do some reading back on your own few posts.

[Mitch Perkins]

If the extra width is almost a millimeter then the center has to move half of that.

Perhaps it should, but it does not *have* to. The down and dirty approach of simply widening the gate, composing with a slight offset, and using whatever extra image area you happen to gain for each shot worked quite well for Sleep Always, and for miles of footage after that.

As I say, the one thing gate widening will *always* allow you to do is crop to the edge of picture during telecine, not the camera mask, so it's definitely worth doing.

Re-centering the lens or VF are admirable projects, but not necessary. As for moving the gate over, I have never seen a gate with PDC slot that has any wiggle room. Also the PDC might hit the perf edges.

Mitch