threeinv wrote:If the blue tint was on the older footage (not the recent reels), I would strongly suspect that it was shot incorrectly at the time without the 85 filter in place in the camera. For that scenario, I
The old film all looks great and very natural projected. I just recently got
all the film back this evening retransfered and it looks better. In a quick
comparison to the old transfer the blue tinge was throughtout all the
transfers but more noticeable on the reels with a lot of face close ups or
water shots.
For the white balance on the old batch, brightlight, I thought you told me
that you were white balancing with the white leader in the gate? I'd think
balancing to that murky plastic would cause the colour problems we had.
Sometimes there is a world of detail in the shadow parts :lol:
Sometimes there is nothing in the shadow parts.
It depends on the used stock and the exposure of the original.
Old 25 ASA R8 Kodachrome for example has no detail in the shadows at all. If you try to tweak these, you get ugly noise.
There is a very fine Avisynth plugin available to bring up detail and colors in the darker parts: HDR AGC.
A few examples: (I posted these before in another thread)
Super-8, 1970's Kodachrome..
Fred.
my website:
http://www.super-8.be
about film transfering:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_k0IKckACujwT_fZHN6jlg
super8man wrote:The problem with correcting things in NLE is the time to render...
It's only a problem if you use an NLE that has to render. There are a variety of modestly priced NLE systems that have real time color correction. We use the Matrox RTX100 system for our NLE. It is about a $1200 PC board you install that usually comes with Premier as part of the package and will do real time transitions, color, density and gamma corrections as well as real time MPEG files for DVD authoring. No rendering is needed and it has a breakout box that lets you see what you are doing in real time directly on a video monitor, just like your audience will see it. While $1200 isn't chump change, if you are running a volume business and want to do serious post work on deadline, it is practically free because it will pay for itself in increased productivity. The controls are laid out very much like Photoshop and there isn't much you can't do with it, in terms of color correction. I highly recommend it to anyone that is serious about doing CC in post on their PC.
Sounds like an excellent rendering tool Roger - agreed on the cost part but at this point, I will have to pass. I would rather spend the money to upgrade one of my wp xps to a sniper than sink 1200 on that...so, for the time being, let's just say I like the Workprinter "Classic" approach...
as in "classic coke"
My website - check it out...
http://super8man.filmshooting.com/
super8man wrote:The problem with correcting things in NLE is the time to render...
It's only a problem if you use an NLE that has to render. There are a variety of modestly priced NLE systems that have real time color correction. We use the Matrox RTX100 system for our NLE. It is about a $1200 PC board you install that usually comes with Premier as part of the package and will do real time transitions, color, density and gamma corrections as well as real time MPEG files for DVD authoring. No rendering is needed and it has a breakout box that lets you see what you are doing in real time directly on a video monitor, just like your audience will see it. While $1200 isn't chump change, if you are running a volume business and want to do serious post work on deadline, it is practically free because it will pay for itself in increased productivity. The controls are laid out very much like Photoshop and there isn't much you can't do with it, in terms of color correction. I highly recommend it to anyone that is serious about doing CC in post on their PC.
Roger
Roger, are you saying that with the Matrox card and premier you can do 3-point color correction on the fly without rendering? If so, won't it need to render when compiling the file? If not, that's fantastic. What a timesaver!
I'm curious as I have Liquid Edition and although rendering occurs in the background, you need for it to finish rendering to see the output on the NTSC monitor. I'd have to check, but I believe anything pertaining to color-correction and white balance in Liquid is "classic effects", which need to be rendered.
John
*Edit*: Looks like basic color correction is part of the "realtime effects".
JhnZ33 wrote:Roger, are you saying that with the Matrox card and premier you can do 3-point color correction on the fly without rendering? If so, won't it need to render when compiling the file? If not, that's fantastic. What a timesaver!
actually most modern software based solution can do 3-way cc without special addon hardware given you have a reasonably fast computer.
for example FCP will do a 3-way cc on DV footage on every G5 or Intel mac, and probably even on the 1Ghz+ Powermacs.
and yes you can send this corrected signal down to the DV deck on the fly, although i still prefer to render it to be absolutely sure that it is the best quality. given that on a fast computer the render is much faster than real-time anyway, you hardly loose any time.
JhnZ33 wrote:
Roger, are you saying that with the Matrox card and premier you can do 3-point color correction on the fly without rendering? If so, won't it need to render when compiling the file? If not, that's fantastic. What a timesaver!
Absolutely. Matrox has real time controls for gamma, contrast, brightness, saturation, color, etc and, like Photoshop, you can just work on dark areas, mid-tones or highlights. It will also let you re-white balance after the fact in real time and has real time sharpening, if you need it. Basically, it is like Photoshop for video and you can save you settings to reapply to other clips. It's the bomb, as far as I'm concerned, and does a great job. You don't color correct while the footage is playing but you apply color correction to the clips and then hit play, which is more efficient and more accurate, too, than trying to color correct while footage is racing by. When you hit play it starts runnning the footage immediately with no rendering. The Matrox system has an accelerator card with a breakout box so you can see what you are doing on a real production monitor and not a computer monitor. I highly recommend it.
JhnZ33 wrote:Roger, are you saying that with the Matrox card and premier you can do 3-point color correction on the fly without rendering? If so, won't it need to render when compiling the file? If not, that's fantastic. What a timesaver!
actually most modern software based solution can do 3-way cc without special addon hardware given you have a reasonably fast computer.
++ christoph ++
Thanks christoph. Liquid Edition uses no special hardware either and the computer I use is as follows:
Intel 915 motherboard
Intel 550J 3.4Ghz processor
Corsair 2 GB memory
Sapphire Tech X700 Pro video card
Creative Labs SB Audigy 2 ZS
550 Watt PS
Pioneer DVR-109
XP Pro
Two 250 GB Sata drives
80 GB system drive
I believe this setup is more than adequate for what I use it for ???
JhnZ33 wrote:
Roger, are you saying that with the Matrox card and premier you can do 3-point color correction on the fly without rendering? If so, won't it need to render when compiling the file? If not, that's fantastic. What a timesaver!
Absolutely. Matrox has real time controls for gamma, contrast, brightness, saturation, color, etc and, like Photoshop, you can just work on dark areas, mid-tones or highlights. It will also let you re-white balance after the fact in real time and has real time sharpening, if you need it. Basically, it is like Photoshop for video and you can save you settings to reapply to other clips. It's the bomb, as far as I'm concerned, and does a great job. You don't color correct while the footage is playing but you apply color correction to the clips and then hit play, which is more efficient and more accurate, too, than trying to color correct while footage is racing by. When you hit play it starts runnning the footage immediately with no rendering. The Matrox system has an accelerator card with a breakout box so you can see what you are doing on a real production monitor and not a computer monitor. I highly recommend it.
Roger
That's fantastic Roger. Something else to put on my wish list.
JhnZ33 wrote:I believe this setup is more than adequate for what I use it for ???
i'm not really experienced with PC hardware but for DV footage that should be more than enough, you should be able to stack 2 or 3 effects and still see it in full quality in realtime.
have no idea if liquid can send it out over firewire for preview though, i've heard a lot of good things about the software, but then again avid doesnt like having too many features build into their affordable systems, which is why i boycott them ;)
++ christoph ++
Roger is right, the realtime capabilities of the matrox rtx100 card are great. However... I've found that if I CC in AE and or premiere using their built in CC controls, I can get much better results with less image degradation.
The best example would be to try raising the gamma on a clip in the matrox suite, then try doing it in AE. The matrox provides realtime results, but the results are not as smooth as they would be in other software. I've found it washes out and desaturates the image in comparison.
Also, saturation isn't quite as good in the matrox suite. But for minor tweaks, it works just fine and you'll be flying through corrections.
It all depends upon how particular you or your clients will be over certain things.
I believe this setup is more than adequate for what I use it for ???
canopus edius is the ultimate tool. it's not that overloaded with functions like PPro and FCP but it has very good effects and it's fast and intuitiv to work with. with your system you can run 3way color correction curves plus 2 or 3 other effects in realtime, without any additional hardware! if you once learn how to use it you'll love it, plus you get all the canopus codecs with it. i have worked with different versions of Premiere before and i have to do projects on FCP from time to time, always happy to get back to Edius. The only downside to it is the lack of compatibility if you have to share your projects with others. then you probably better use FCP or AVID.
jusetan wrote:Roger is right, the realtime capabilities of the matrox rtx100 card are great. However... I've found that if I CC in AE and or premiere using their built in CC controls, I can get much better results with less image degradation.....
Interesting (and it could just be my old eyes) but I have actually found no perceptible difference between the two. We now have four different edit suites and one has Premier/AE and I tried doing the same CC on both the Matrox and Premier/AE and really saw no difference. What I did see was that doing CC on Premier/AE on a computer screen without the benefit of seeing my results on an NTSC monitor while making corrections actually led to more additional tweaking on Premier than on Matrox, which allows you to see your adjustments on an NTSC monitor as you make them. But there is a slight difference in quality between the older, original Matrox RTX100 and the later Matrox RTX Extreme Pro (or whatever they call it). Also, you can use the Premier CC controls on the Matrox timeline and have instant NTSC preview on color, since everything still outputs through their video card.
Basically, any edit system with real time feedback via your PAL or NTSC monitor is going to allow for faster, more precise CC than trying to CC via a computer monitor, which never shows the colors like they will be seen by your TV viewing audience. CC on a computer monitor can be done well, obviously, but can eat up a lot of time with re-tweaking and trying to second guess colors.
another option would be to use the Blackmagic Decklink cards (if you're looking for a monitor output), but I haven't found a way to get realtime CC capabilities on a PC with it.
jusetan wrote:another option would be to use the Blackmagic Decklink cards (if you're looking for a monitor output), but I haven't found a way to get realtime CC capabilities on a PC with it.
that sucks, on OSX the decklink cards do nearly every important effect on all major codecs in real-time.
however, they state on their website:
"Real time effects:
Windows XPâ„¢, Adobe Premiere Pro 2 internal effects in DV, MJPEG and uncompressed edit modes. (System dependant.)"
MJPEG is usually quite good quality/size ratio, so you might want to look into that (or with todays harddisk prices buy a big raid for uncompressed work)
.