Who has plans for reloadable S8 cartridge / Magazine?

[Ds21z/LA]

Has any onef tried to come up with a reloadable Super 8 cartridge or maybe 200ft magazine for the Beaulieu? I understand from Pedro and others there was a converted R16 200ft magazine conversion from Ritter or Bavaria Film Works but it was / is impossibly expensive, makes using standard super 8 cartridges unusable, and film loads were only available from Ritter / Bavaria Film Works. Has anyone looked at or attempted to come up with something like this low cost? Are there any left over 200ft Sound cartridges and could they be made reloadable and useable for silent super 8 200ft loads?

If I could get a hold of some old 200ft sound cartridges I might take a look at coming up with something.

Regards,

Ds21z

[ericMartinJarvies]

hello,

this could be easily made. using an empty carterage ,and one of those andec pressure plates, two film spools, and some type of housing, as crude as it may be, would be all that is needed. hell, you could even modify the 4008zm cameras to take the mag, by cutting out a small area on the top of the camera and making some mods to the bay itself. the same could stand to reason for other camera types.

the big problem would be the actual super8 film stock ... where can you get the film in lengths of 200/400' or greater?

i've said it once, i'll say it again, i think a new super8 camera is in order ... if only a couple hundred of them were made. making a new super8 camera with EVERYTHING addressed on al lthe super8 wishlists. heck, if 250 people prepaid $500.00 each, plus $50.00 per month for 12 months, that would cover prototyping the camera, and most of the inital parts and assembly costs.

[dave]

i have been working on this for about 2 years .anyone interested in this subject can call me in new jersey usa at 2018368291 9-9 est
dave

[ericMartinJarvies]

again, i think this needs to be more of a film coop, then individual ventures ... individual ventures would surely fail, or just struggle along. whereas if hundfreds of people belonged to a coop, wherein they paid monthly dues, and had options to have higher membership status by paying higher dues, then this could keep active, and highly useful product development and manufacture underway. but this would require taking all the things that do NOT work about super8, and taking all the things we wished worked for super8, and making a new product, literally a new camera, with new accessories ,and the whole nine yards. naturally, reg super8 stock could and would be sold/used for all the other older cameras we would all use on a regular or moderate basis, but the real driving force would be taking super8 to the limits using today's technologies. personally, i would like for my children to watch films of teir childhood when they are adults instead of watching videos. that would explain why have already burned over 30 rolls of film on my ids in the past coupel months

[ds21z]

OK...I found the russian guy who has reloadable 50 ft carts and may try some. Also a site member who wants to sell some he is not using.

So anyone have any comments about using the russian / ukrainian 50 ft reloadable carts?

Next, I don't really think that a new camera design is going to fly .... not economically viable. And if anyone could do it Beaulieu or the Japanese would have already started that project. No, I am looking for much simpler DIY projects that can improve what we have and be of benefit to other 8-ters. In light of the reapid advances in digital there just isn't going to be enough support for any more ambitious grand goal than that.

I think innovative ways to keep the available equipment in use and keep a respectable number of people interested in film and keep em buying enough to keep ilford, foma, kodak, and fuji making film is quite ambitious enough.

As for a viable 200ft magazine. I think that's very doable and certainly want to get in touch with any one interested in this project. By the way, this could go hand in hand with Paul Cotto's idea to have his own DblS8 perfing / cutting machine because if that works to get DblS8 from 35mm then anybody who can reload Super 8 can enjoy an expanded choice of film as well.

Let me know what you think!

Ds21z

[sk8s]

There was a camera/magazine of this sort made in the early to mid 70's. It was, I think, a Minolta silent super 8 camera converted to accept a scaled down Mitchell style reloadable 200' mag. It was manufactured by the Wilcam Photo Research Company. It was called the W-1, a single system super 8 newsreel camera system.

Over the years I have seen a few picures of this camera. In 1994 I saw it in person at a pawn shop in Toronto. The next year it was still in that shop. The guy wanted $600.00 for it. To this day I regret not buying it. If I ever get back to Toronto I am going back to that shop.
-Rob Skates

[Old Uncle Barry]

Ds21z has the right idea.If designers and engineers out there really want to help the Super8 movement why not redirect your abilities to making SPARES. Spares for all manner of,or just specialise in one particular brand.
Also you could try and accrue a database of problem areas with certain cameras and projectors,once identified,channel your skills to whatever area you can accomodate AND provide.Pie in the sky ideas are all well and good,but you have to follow through to succeed. =D>

[Mikael]

I have had plans for this for a long time.

Here are some pictures from the 60m/200ft Kodak mag now again.

http://everyschool.org/u/edslug/plattin ... tCart.html

[Carlos 8mm]

OK...I found the russian guy who has reloadable 50 ft carts and may try some. Also a site member who wants to sell some he is not using.

So anyone have any comments about using the russian / ukrainian 50 ft reloadable carts?

Next, I don't really think that a new camera design is going to fly .... not economically viable. And if anyone could do it Beaulieu or the Japanese would have already started that project. No, I am looking for much simpler DIY projects that can improve what we have and be of benefit to other 8-ters. In light of the reapid advances in digital there just isn't going to be enough support for any more ambitious grand goal than that.

I think innovative ways to keep the available equipment in use and keep a respectable number of people interested in film and keep em buying enough to keep ilford, foma, kodak, and fuji making film is quite ambitious enough.

As for a viable 200ft magazine. I think that's very doable and certainly want to get in touch with any one interested in this project. By the way, this could go hand in hand with Paul Cotto's idea to have his own DblS8 perfing / cutting machine because if that works to get DblS8 from 35mm then anybody who can reload Super 8 can enjoy an expanded choice of film as well.

Let me know what you think!

Ds21z

Well, I've 18 Kaccema reloadable cartridges, that I purchased in Ukraine.

These reloadable carts are well-designed, with a metal-pressure plate. (Sometimes that plate needs to be polished again).
Anyway, these reloadable carts works pretty good, there's no gittering problems, they're easy so reload (with a little of practice).

If Paul will built a DS8 perforating machine, We need reloadable cartridges.
It Could be fine to design a 200 ft reloadable cart, due Kahl film in Germany sells S8 raw stock in 200 ft spools.

I agree with you about DIY projects can be more useful for the S8 community. So If we want keep S8 alive for many years, these little inventios are the first step.

Paul's idea it's pretty darn good, because with a 100 ft. of 35mm stock, it's possible to obtain 100 ft of DS8 film + 100 ft of Super8 film or 3 100 ft. rolls of Super 8 film. And we'll need reloadable carts for S8.

Carlos.

[dave]

carlos: are you sure about super 8 on spools at kahl?
wiitner is trying to get the k40 silent from kodak so far with no success. im trying to get kodak to release the k40 so wittner can have it striped for use in the ritter magazine

[dave]

Mikeal: sure looks like you have been playing with the kodak 200 ft cart for a long time .marty baumgarten a super 8 guru(super8mm@aol.com) does not believe you can reload the 200ft cart as is. i beleive you would agree and would suggest the ritter magazine in a cheaper version is the way to go especially if it could be used in current super 8 200 ft cameras without modification.i think wittner could then supply the film and the film could be processed by kodak if we can kodak to release the k40 silent stock. wittner can stripe the stock.

[Mikael]

I understand from Pedro and others there was a converted R16 200ft magazine conversion from Ritter or Bavaria Film Works but it was / is impossibly expensive, makes using standard super 8 cartridges unusable

Yes the Bavaria SD8/60 mag was like $3000 or something (Correct me if I´m wrong, Pedro) The camera mod was not that bad, $300 if I remember correctly... you´re right about it being more or less permanent. You probably could "modify" it back though. Supposedly another $$$?

In my opinion this new solution should be a pop-in, pop-out, kinda thing. Like the 50ft cart. For quick interchangability between 50ft carts and this new 200/400ft mag... thing!

film loads were only available from Ritter / Bavaria Film Works.

Maybe Paul will take care of that. 200 and 400ft loads, any filmstock. Sounds terrific!

Has anyone looked at or attempted to come up with something like this low cost?

Yes, I have an idea or two.

Are there any left over 200ft Sound cartridges

For sale, yes. Here. http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfis ... er8mm.html
There were only 3 left when I emailed them yesterday (May 21).

and could they be made reloadable and useable for silent super 8 200ft loads?

(This has been discussed in an old thread in the old forum. Couldn´t search it out for you though. Awand, what´s up with the "search old archives" feature ?) No, I do not think so. They are almost completely made of plastic and have parts that wear down. They are also spring loaded.

Any new solution should have a motor.

It could work like the mag motor kept sync with the camera thru a connection to the camera flash-contact... A) A stepper motor that advanced a number of degrees per every pulse ? B) A regular engine speeding up and down according to camera speed. (Both cases need control circute boards, there are good, cheap, small ones. I know a couple.) Creating a mag capable of only 24/25fps is NOT what I want to do.

I think that any new mag solution should be based on an existing 16mm mag, for simplicity. (Like the r16 or bolex or arri s or or or...) Taking one designing and manufacturing bit out of the equation. (if you choose the bolex mag you could cram 400ft in there, that´s 20 mins of happy filming @ 24fps )

Like this, take the 200ft mag from the R16, with S8 200ft daylight spools currently available from Wittner, custom make a (platine??) base for it that attach to any super8 camera with the 200ft capability (and modified cameras like Eric suggested) and come up with an internal, instantly removable, camera model independant solution, to use instead of the bavaria camera modification.

My idea here is: A modified 50ft k40/k40 sound cart - with metal sprocket wheel (instead of the original plastic take-up wheel without teeth), (andec pressure plate?) and cut-away side (on supply side. for easy film threading) could work. Anyway, I´d like to try. Actually I have already tried. It worked. I had a k40 sound mag which i modified slightly by cutting out (2) rectangular holes in the top of the cart for the film to come in and out thru (from the imagined mag on top of the camera), then I cut away some plastic inside the cart and rerouted the film path (see image below) to work with the way the take-up spool sprocket revolves. (Which would would need to be exchanged for a sprocket wheel as stated above. Film movement cannot rely on gate claw and mag motor only, then the loop would be lost.)
Anyway, it worked, sort of. The film went in and it came out.

See pictures below to get a better idea of what the heck I´m talking about.


Btw, I accidentally named the Bolex mag for "R16mag" oh well...

[Mikael]

Mikeal: sure looks like you have been playing with the kodak 200 ft cart for a long time .

No, no. That gallery was Ed Plattino's. Where are you Ed ?
(I´ve never seen a 200ft cart in real life, i have merely dissected a 50ft sound cart)

i beleive you would agree and would suggest the ritter magazine in a cheaper version is the way to go especially if it could be used in current super 8 200 ft cameras without modification.

Exactly! Did you read my post before i posted it or .. .??? :lol:

think wittner could then supply the film

If he gets this perforating machine put together, Paul could do that. Otherwise wittner could supply the film, but there is no 200ft film loads to be found on their site, i wonder...

There are plenty of places that sound stripe film. See the the "Weberling" thread for a list of places in the USA. I know some that are close to my location (Sweden).[/quote]

[ericMartinJarvies]

hello,

great thread!! i personally think that any new film mags should be self contained, which is to say the only mod to the camera should be an opening to insert the mag, which would essentially be a regular carterage at the bottom/base, that is connected to a larger spool/takeup area up top. this way, you do not have to add any mechanics to the camera bay as shown in the above pictures, which prevents one from using a regular carterage in their super8 camera. the picture of that kodak film mag/cart is totally the answer. did they used to make this mag?? or was it a concept only? ( http://everyschool.org/u/edslug/plattin ... tCart.html ) <<< or whats the story behind this?

i assume this type of cart was made for cameras like the beaulieu 7008pro, which already had the top bay door to allow a film mag to be inserted.

eric

[Carlos 8mm]

carlos: are you sure about super 8 on spools at kahl?
wiitner is trying to get the k40 silent from kodak so far with no success. im trying to get kodak to release the k40 so wittner can have it striped for use in the ritter magazine

Sure, Kahl Film sells their own Super 8 B&W and color reversal and B&W negative stock (silent, and I think it's ORWO) in 200 ft (60 mts.) rolls. the cost is around 29 Euros each.

They sells Std8 film in raw stock too.

Carlos.