Hi all…
I have been interested in small-format photography for some time now, and am looking to get started with Super8 at a fairly basic (read: cheap) level. I really like the look that comes from the film and have hopes of someday being involved in short filmmaking, but even participation in things like the time-lapse projects and just home-movies would be a great start. I would find it immensely helpful if some of the experts here were to offer their advice on decent camera models that are reasonably cheap, have a fairly simple learning curve, but also a decent feature set (including manual film speed setting or interval timer and zoom lenses, etc), and are relatively easy to find and take care of. Some advice as to good films would be helpful, as well.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
New Super8 User- Request for advice
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
New Super8 User- Request for advice
Cheers, Jock.
(This is why you don't leave anything logged in with mates around, people. I don't want to know what else he changed...)
(This is why you don't leave anything logged in with mates around, people. I don't want to know what else he changed...)
Hey there! Great to have another Aussie onboard. Regarding super 8 cameras, there are many versatile models out there that can be bought at a bargain price. At flea markets, it's not uncommon to see top of the range cameras (that once retailed for about $600 -700 in the 1970s) selling for $30. Though I did pay $150 for my first super 8 camera (a Canon 1014 Autozoom Electronic) and projector.
If you are specifically after a camera with an intervelometer like you mentioned, most of the models that I know of with that feature are quite expensive - like the Canon 1014XLs and the Nizos. I can only think of one camera model featuring an interval timer which can usually be obtained quite cheaply - the Minolta XL-401 - though this camera has a fairly limited zoom range. Still, it does has manual exposure control which is essential if you are keen to learn about cinematography.
You might be lucky though and come across a highly versatile camera with interval timer being sold for next to nothing. Are there many flea markets around Canberra? Other options include garage sales, second hand sections of camera shops, placing 'wanted' ads in classifieds and eBay.
If you are specifically after a camera with an intervelometer like you mentioned, most of the models that I know of with that feature are quite expensive - like the Canon 1014XLs and the Nizos. I can only think of one camera model featuring an interval timer which can usually be obtained quite cheaply - the Minolta XL-401 - though this camera has a fairly limited zoom range. Still, it does has manual exposure control which is essential if you are keen to learn about cinematography.
You might be lucky though and come across a highly versatile camera with interval timer being sold for next to nothing. Are there many flea markets around Canberra? Other options include garage sales, second hand sections of camera shops, placing 'wanted' ads in classifieds and eBay.
No, not really. This is Canberra!Patrick wrote:Are there many flea markets around Canberra?
Although I am moving to Melbourne at the end of the year...But you have mentioned model names, so I can look for them. The Minolta XL-401 sounds good. I don't plan on needing too much (althouh I will always want...) too much zoom. However, if doesn't turn out, I recall hearing somewhere that you can get intervelometer attachments seperatly, as long as the camera has single frame feature and cable-release shutter...
Anyway, thank you, and here's to my luck on eBay and the like...
BTW: Patrick, while you're attending to this matter, I did also want to know about film. In particular, where is the best place to buy and develop it in Australia, if that's possible?
Cheers, Jock.
(This is why you don't leave anything logged in with mates around, people. I don't want to know what else he changed...)
(This is why you don't leave anything logged in with mates around, people. I don't want to know what else he changed...)
For the last 40 years, you could walk into a camera shop and buy a process-paid Kodachrome 40 cartridge. Now in 2006, all that has changed. Kodachrome 40 has been recently discontinued and replaced by Ektachrome 64T. Both these films are colour reversal films. Though as K40 was quite common, very few shops, if any, stock 64T. I believe Richard who runs Nano Lab in Victoria sells 64T and develops it also.
You have two options for black & white films - a medium speed film called Plus-X and a faster film called Tri-X. Very few places stock these films also but I believe Nano Lab and Film Plus (also in Victoria) can develop them. There are also two colour negative films available - 200T and 500T and I am fairly sure that no one in Australia stocks these particular films. Negative films always work out to be more expensive because in order to get a positive image, you have to either have the film transferred to video or get a reversal print from them. By the way, I only know of one lab in the world that can do reversal prints from super 8 negative and that is Andec in Europe.
All the films that I have mentioned are official releases from Kodak. There are other companies who have ordered raw film stock from Kodak and Fuji and loaded them into super 8 cartridges and sell these to the public. These include Wittner 100D and also Fuji Velvia 50 which is available from two sources (one of which is Spectra in the US and I can never remember what the other company is.)
By the way, regarding Ektachrome 64T - make sure you select a camera that accepts 64asa film. Not all super 8 cameras do. Some cameras will default to 40asa when a 64T cartridge is loaded. Then again, you can always adjust the exposure manually to compensate if you happen to get one of these latter cameras.
You have two options for black & white films - a medium speed film called Plus-X and a faster film called Tri-X. Very few places stock these films also but I believe Nano Lab and Film Plus (also in Victoria) can develop them. There are also two colour negative films available - 200T and 500T and I am fairly sure that no one in Australia stocks these particular films. Negative films always work out to be more expensive because in order to get a positive image, you have to either have the film transferred to video or get a reversal print from them. By the way, I only know of one lab in the world that can do reversal prints from super 8 negative and that is Andec in Europe.
All the films that I have mentioned are official releases from Kodak. There are other companies who have ordered raw film stock from Kodak and Fuji and loaded them into super 8 cartridges and sell these to the public. These include Wittner 100D and also Fuji Velvia 50 which is available from two sources (one of which is Spectra in the US and I can never remember what the other company is.)
By the way, regarding Ektachrome 64T - make sure you select a camera that accepts 64asa film. Not all super 8 cameras do. Some cameras will default to 40asa when a 64T cartridge is loaded. Then again, you can always adjust the exposure manually to compensate if you happen to get one of these latter cameras.
It is unfortunate with the whole K40 thing, but hey... I'm only going to see hundred and hundreds of exposed feet of it when my grandparents dig out the old films next time we visit...
Convininetly I'll be living in Victoria next year, most probably within 20 minutes drive of Film Plus in Windsor, so E64T will just have to be the next best thing. But it looks like most dealings with S8 film are through the mail anyway, so I'll have to investigate the Fuji and Wittner stuff.
I also have been reading about the autoexposure problems. Rest assured that I'll be researching any model I might pick long before I hand over the money.
Convininetly I'll be living in Victoria next year, most probably within 20 minutes drive of Film Plus in Windsor, so E64T will just have to be the next best thing. But it looks like most dealings with S8 film are through the mail anyway, so I'll have to investigate the Fuji and Wittner stuff.
I also have been reading about the autoexposure problems. Rest assured that I'll be researching any model I might pick long before I hand over the money.
Cheers, Jock.
(This is why you don't leave anything logged in with mates around, people. I don't want to know what else he changed...)
(This is why you don't leave anything logged in with mates around, people. I don't want to know what else he changed...)
There are no cheap cameras offering manual film speed setting. To the best of my knowledge only the better Beaulies and the Leicina Special offer that feature...and they all go for big $$$$. Manual film speed just wasn't a feature considered useful in super 8 as the format was designed specifically with auto detection of the speed in mind.
But with the axing of the two most popular stocks (K40 and Ekta 160) what I suspect you really need is a camera capable of recognising a good range of film speeds automatically - including Etka 64T, Wittner 100 (with the possible later release of the same material by Kodak) and the higher speeds for use with negative film.
Most cameras with a built in intervalometer don't come cheap either but you can find them cheaper than those with manual ASA setting. Several Nizo models offer an intervalometer (The S 501 often goes fairly cheap, I just got one from ebay Germany for £40) and the better Chinon sound cameras had them as well as a few high end Canons.
Any decent super 8 camera has a zoom lens...and most of the well known names produced cameras with good quality lenses.
If it weren't a bit difficult to use I'd recommend the Nizo S501...its fairly cheap, small, robust, has an intervalometer and recognises multiple film speeds up to 200ASA. BUT there is a caveat...its not easy to use for a beginner. The variable shutter isn't something beginners need to worry about and the weird quirk whereby the f-stop scale isn't visible in the same plane as the viewfinder image is going to drive a newbie crazy.
If the intervalometer is really important, do be aware that sometimes on a camera with a built in device, it has become faulty over the years. You might end up spending more, but getting a more satisfactory result by buying a camera that does not have one built in and later adding one as an accessory. Having said this of the four cams with built-in intervalometers that I have owned, only one has ever malfunctioned and it usually works for the first 10 minutes of a shoot.
But with the axing of the two most popular stocks (K40 and Ekta 160) what I suspect you really need is a camera capable of recognising a good range of film speeds automatically - including Etka 64T, Wittner 100 (with the possible later release of the same material by Kodak) and the higher speeds for use with negative film.
Most cameras with a built in intervalometer don't come cheap either but you can find them cheaper than those with manual ASA setting. Several Nizo models offer an intervalometer (The S 501 often goes fairly cheap, I just got one from ebay Germany for £40) and the better Chinon sound cameras had them as well as a few high end Canons.
Any decent super 8 camera has a zoom lens...and most of the well known names produced cameras with good quality lenses.
If it weren't a bit difficult to use I'd recommend the Nizo S501...its fairly cheap, small, robust, has an intervalometer and recognises multiple film speeds up to 200ASA. BUT there is a caveat...its not easy to use for a beginner. The variable shutter isn't something beginners need to worry about and the weird quirk whereby the f-stop scale isn't visible in the same plane as the viewfinder image is going to drive a newbie crazy.
If the intervalometer is really important, do be aware that sometimes on a camera with a built in device, it has become faulty over the years. You might end up spending more, but getting a more satisfactory result by buying a camera that does not have one built in and later adding one as an accessory. Having said this of the four cams with built-in intervalometers that I have owned, only one has ever malfunctioned and it usually works for the first 10 minutes of a shoot.
The government says that by 2010 30% of us will be fat....I am merely a trendsetter 
You may also want to look for some of the older cameras. My general impression is that they are more rugged than the later ones as they tend to have a body of metal, and often will read several asa speeds. However, the coating may not be so good and they may use 2xpx625 batt for the meter.However, if doesn't turn out, I recall hearing somewhere that you can get intervelometer attachments seperatly, as long as the camera has single frame feature and cable-release shutter...
Intervalattatchments are out there, and if you are electronically minded you may build your own from a Welleman kit.
-
richard p. t.
- Senior member
- Posts: 1004
- Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:44 pm
- Location: victoria, Australia
- Contact:
Re: New Super8 User- Request for advice
Hi James,
Richard here. I run a super 8 lab business called nano lab. We are in Daylesford, Vic. Visit our web site: nanolab.com.au
I have a page there about what to look for in a super 8 camera.
Film Plus can develop Tri-x super 8. They cant do any colour film stocks. Nano Lab can do Tri-x and any other black and white stock, as well as any of the new E6 super 8 stocks. We also sell a good range of stocks and materials including Ektachrome 100d. This is a very nice - I like to say the nicest ever - colour super 8 stock available. We also have a film to digital transfer service (well we're actually just about to launch this, it will probably be up and running in about a week).
I have tried to put a fair bit of technical info up on our site, but if there is anything you want to ask, please feel free to do so.
Cheers,
Richard
Richard here. I run a super 8 lab business called nano lab. We are in Daylesford, Vic. Visit our web site: nanolab.com.au
I have a page there about what to look for in a super 8 camera.
Film Plus can develop Tri-x super 8. They cant do any colour film stocks. Nano Lab can do Tri-x and any other black and white stock, as well as any of the new E6 super 8 stocks. We also sell a good range of stocks and materials including Ektachrome 100d. This is a very nice - I like to say the nicest ever - colour super 8 stock available. We also have a film to digital transfer service (well we're actually just about to launch this, it will probably be up and running in about a week).
I have tried to put a fair bit of technical info up on our site, but if there is anything you want to ask, please feel free to do so.
Cheers,
Richard
I run Nano Lab - Australia's super8 ektachrome processing service
- visit nanolab.com.au
richard@nanolab.com.au
- visit nanolab.com.au
richard@nanolab.com.au
Well, thank you, Richard. Sending my films within the state is much more easy and less worrying than overseas. Of course, I do hope to try my hand at developing film myself, but even buying film from you is better than having to deal with exchange and all. The film is a tad on the expensive side, but much cheaper, when I work it out, than 35mm still film! I might use half a reel on stills...
Anyway, thank you for all your advice. I'd still like to know some good camera models to look out for, but you've all been very helpful so far.
Anyway, thank you for all your advice. I'd still like to know some good camera models to look out for, but you've all been very helpful so far.
Cheers, Jock.
(This is why you don't leave anything logged in with mates around, people. I don't want to know what else he changed...)
(This is why you don't leave anything logged in with mates around, people. I don't want to know what else he changed...)
-
Shanec8mm
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:59 am
- Real name: Shane Collins
- Location: Williamsport, PA
- Contact:
I'm somewhat of a newbie myself, been shooting film for about a year now off and on. I taught myself a year ago, with the help of many here, how to shoot reg 8mm. I only ever used an auto exposure once and have totally relied on manual exposures. I have never even used a light meter, just set the exposures manually by getting a feel for the amount of light, weather conditon, etc. I actually can say that I have been very impressed with the results. Shooting on Kodachrome may have helped my sitution though. Anyways I just recently purchased my first Super 8mm camera a Minolta Autopak 8 D6. This thing is built like a tank, seems to have held up well over the yrs. All Minolta Autopaks will meter properly for 64T film. There is some debate has to whether this camera will handle 100T but that's another topic. I would have to say that Minolta's seem to be underated, not much is said about them, yet they are very easy to use and offer a fair amount of options for someone just starting out. My model is an auto only but the meter can be locked in place once the fstop is found. The camera also offers other features that are handy. Such as "through the aperture EE system, variable speed power zoom lens, remote control filming,( Information center when looking through the viewfinder, fstops, battery light, under exposure light, end of film warning, etc). 4 AA batteries for micromotor and exposure meter, (means no seperate batteries needed for meter, daylight filming: ASA 25-100, Artificial light: ASA 40 up to 160, microprism focusing which is very easy to use, speeds 18,32, and single frame, x sync terminal for strobe, also has a special slot for use of a intervalometer. also can be used to synch sound with a tape recorder. and I think that's about it. Ok I'm done now LOL. Hope this helps.
Shane
Shane
-
untitled#6
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:04 am
- Contact:
By no means am I an expert but I am an owner of the Minolta XL-401 that was mentioned previously. The XL-401 is a great little camera especially for the price. Manual exposure, intervalometer, friendly batteries, good lens, etc.
The one big negative on this model is that the built-in meter does not correctly expose the new E64T film natively. Fortunately there is a pretty simple workaround for this issue as described in the following link: viewtopic.php?t=9792&view=next&sid=ffd0 ... d893029821
I was able to follow these instructions without any problems so if I can do it...
Happy filming!
The one big negative on this model is that the built-in meter does not correctly expose the new E64T film natively. Fortunately there is a pretty simple workaround for this issue as described in the following link: viewtopic.php?t=9792&view=next&sid=ffd0 ... d893029821
I was able to follow these instructions without any problems so if I can do it...
Happy filming!
-
jaxshooter
- Posts: 739
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:52 pm
- Real name: Marty Hamrick
- Location: Windsor, Ontario
- Contact:
I have a list of "musts" for any super 8 camera I might consider purchasing.
1) 24fps
2) single frame
3) manual over ride on the iris-I have noticed that some cameras have faulty iris windows.I had an Elmo 1012 that had lost the iris window in the VF alltogether.When a friend opened it up,he found that some electronic component had overheated and melted a piece of optics that rendered the iris setting invisible.I feel that this is definitely needed for the new film stocks.
4) reflex viewing
5) a decent lens,at least a 5 to 1.I like 8mm or wider on the wide end.
Here are some things I like to have..
1)a flash sync contact jack
2) slow motion
3)macro
4) Interchangeable lenses (Beaulieu and Leicinas are the only ones I know,unless you go with single 8 Fujica ZC 1000 or a DS8 Bolex or Pathe)
1) 24fps
2) single frame
3) manual over ride on the iris-I have noticed that some cameras have faulty iris windows.I had an Elmo 1012 that had lost the iris window in the VF alltogether.When a friend opened it up,he found that some electronic component had overheated and melted a piece of optics that rendered the iris setting invisible.I feel that this is definitely needed for the new film stocks.
4) reflex viewing
5) a decent lens,at least a 5 to 1.I like 8mm or wider on the wide end.
Here are some things I like to have..
1)a flash sync contact jack
2) slow motion
3)macro
4) Interchangeable lenses (Beaulieu and Leicinas are the only ones I know,unless you go with single 8 Fujica ZC 1000 or a DS8 Bolex or Pathe)
Marty Hamrick
Cinematographer
Windsor, Ontario
Cinematographer
Windsor, Ontario
Thank you all for your advice.
Richard has also recommended the Canon Autozoom 518, which seems like a good camera, but seems to lack an intervalometer, and possibly even single frame shooting. These two features are very important to me, but assuming the camera can do single frame from a remote trigger, what options does one have in a seperate intervalometer? How easy is it to find and build the Velleman kit? Naturally I don't want to go around spending all sorts of money to find I bought something that doesn't do what I want it to do...
EDIT - I have found that the 518 SV does have single frame, but only by cable release.
Richard has also recommended the Canon Autozoom 518, which seems like a good camera, but seems to lack an intervalometer, and possibly even single frame shooting. These two features are very important to me, but assuming the camera can do single frame from a remote trigger, what options does one have in a seperate intervalometer? How easy is it to find and build the Velleman kit? Naturally I don't want to go around spending all sorts of money to find I bought something that doesn't do what I want it to do...
EDIT - I have found that the 518 SV does have single frame, but only by cable release.
Cheers, Jock.
(This is why you don't leave anything logged in with mates around, people. I don't want to know what else he changed...)
(This is why you don't leave anything logged in with mates around, people. I don't want to know what else he changed...)
-
Shanec8mm
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:59 am
- Real name: Shane Collins
- Location: Williamsport, PA
- Contact:
jb17kx writes:
Thank you all for your advice.
Richard has also recommended the Canon Autozoom 518, which seems like a good camera, but seems to lack an intervalometer, and possibly even single frame shooting.
The Minolta Autopack 8 D6 offers single frame filming. The selection is avaible on the speed control dial. If you would like a picture of this camera and the dial send me an email to sshane3232@aol.com. I'll send a few your way.
Thank you all for your advice.
Richard has also recommended the Canon Autozoom 518, which seems like a good camera, but seems to lack an intervalometer, and possibly even single frame shooting.
The Minolta Autopack 8 D6 offers single frame filming. The selection is avaible on the speed control dial. If you would like a picture of this camera and the dial send me an email to sshane3232@aol.com. I'll send a few your way.