Prosumer Digital Camcorder

[Tron X]

Hey, I am fairly new to Super 8 but I have shot some carts and like the look of it. However, as a high school student it is still much to expensive and time consuming to produce the majority of my movies on film. So I have been using a digital camcorder and an Apple G5 with Final Cut Express to make my movies. Very easy, very quick, very fun.

Recently, my old digital camcorder, a Sony DCR-TRV340, seized up and died. Now I'm in the market for a new camera with more power and features. My funds are somewhat limited but I do have a job and can currently afford to spend around $1,500 to $2,000.

I was thinking of a Canon GL2. Any suggestions?

[Actor]

If you must shoot video the GL-2 is the best available in your price range.

[El Jeffe]

If I were you I would look for a used dvx100a on ebay. If you want to mix film and video together then 24p is the way to go. I shot on a GL2 for a season in the winter and I was not really impressed with the camera. It has some movie mode which is supposed to mimick the film look but it's pretty cheesy.

good luck

[audadvnc]

...it is still much to expensive and time consuming to produce the majority of my movies on film ...I have been using a digital camcorder and an Apple G5 I do have a job and can currently afford to spend around $1,500 to $2,000.

I was thinking of a Canon GL2. Any suggestions?

Film is too expensive, you say. How many cartridges of Super 8 do you think you can buy for $2000? I'll give you a hint, about 100 - let's see, at 3 minutes apiece, that would give you several hours of footage. Since you shoot film in 10 and 20 second scenes (as opposed to 5 minute video takes), you would probably be in college before you used up your S8 stock, and by then you may have something to show for it.

Hey, this is a film forum. Don't be a vidiot - shoot Super 8!

[Tron X]

I did do the math about how much film a digital cam is worth.

But the time it takes to have film processed, plus linear editing (unless I want to pay more for telecine, as I have no digital cam to home transfer with now), plus not being able to submit film to most local "film" festivals anymore, and the difficulty of adding sound makes shooting exclusively on film rather difficult.

Also, this camera will probably end up recording things like birthdays and vacations and stuff like that.

For me, Super 8 is still mainly a teaching tool. I have used it for one silent movie, some tests, to document a concert my friends put on, and at a family reunion. I need something instant, reliable, sound-capable, and *sigh* digital.

[gianni1]

Dag! Find the cheapest digital 8 and / or Mini DV for DIY telecine, note taking, audio capture... video blogging.....Faux webcamming, storyboarding, etc.. and...Spend the rest on a cheapo HDV camcorder, or...

a few Canon 1014XLS's or one Beaulieu 4008ZMII with Bjorn's servicing, and two Russian Zenit Quarz 1x8S-2's

with Anamorphic Lens,

A Lomo Tank, Film drier rack,

Loads of Film and Chemistry.

And extra 4 hours in the day/night for processing it yourself!

Gianni 8)

[Evan Kubota]

The GL2 is a good camera as far as miniDV options under $1800...

I have one and it has served me well, for documentary purposes and several shorts. I plan on occasionally using it in the future when the specific 'reality' of video is required.

[super8man]

I use the GL2 and am happy with the results. I am also happy with my Canon ZR60.

[Actor]

If you have $2,000 to spend then consider getting getting a workprinter from moviestuff for $1400 and spend the difference on a digital camcorder. Then you have both worlds. Shoot film when you can and video when you have to.

I'd recommend one of the Panasonic 3 chip cameras for this purpose EXCEPT they only have a 10:1 zoom and might not work with the workprinter. However, $300 should buy an excellent single chip camera.

I have access to a Panasonic 3 chip camera and as soon as I get my workprinter sorted out I intend to borrow the camera and see if it work with the workprinter.

[Will2]

Film is too expensive, you say. How many cartridges of Super 8 do you think you can buy for $2000? I'll give you a hint, about 100 - let's see, at 3 minutes apiece, that would give you several hours of footage. Since you shoot film in 10 and 20 second scenes (as opposed to 5 minute video takes), you would probably be in college before you used up your S8 stock, and by then you may have something to show for it.

Hey, this is a film forum. Don't be a vidiot - shoot Super 8!

Yes, but then you have processing and transfer... ouch.

[BigBeaner]

Um, myself and others on this forum have bought a super 8 or 16mm camera and made our shorts that look better than any video camera out there and cost cheaper even with the film stock, processing and professional telecine. Did you actually look at labs and research their prices? Myself and others can back up Cinelab-> http://www.cinelab.com Check the prices and do the math, plus you can get a student discount from Kodak and Fuji did you take that in for account?

Also, cutting and splicing film isn't linear. Linear editing is using two VTR's and having to shoot in order to put the scenes together, whereas editing film by hand is a non-linear experience as you can put them together in any order and digital non-linear editing emulates this experience only without physically touching film.

[Mitch Perkins]

I did do the math about how much film a digital cam is worth.

But the time it takes to have film processed,

Are you usually under a deadline? In a big hurry?

plus linear editing (unless I want to pay more for telecine, as I have no digital cam to home transfer with now),

Folks here have offered WP xfers for free! Certain xfer houses, like, say, photoplays, offer high-quality xfers at low cost.

plus not being able to submit film to most local "film" festivals anymore,

You can shoot film and submit it on any format you like.

and the difficulty of adding sound makes shooting exclusively on film rather difficult.

Without expensive, separate/add-on audio gear, prosumer videocam sound is pure crap across the board. No exceptions.
Adding sound is easy and fun, the most fun of the whole process.
Dialogue should be ADR'd whether you shoot film or tape.

Also, this camera will probably end up recording things like birthdays and vacations and stuff like that.

Exactly the type of scenarios best caught on film; you don't want hours of ugly footage with crap sound of the birthday/vacation, you want a strong, beautiful, succinct memento, or else nobody's gonna want to watch it.
These mementos are for the future - your children's children. Digital is not currently archival quality, certainly not MiniDV. Film is.

For me, Super 8 is still mainly a teaching tool. I have used it for one silent movie, some tests, to document a concert my friends put on, and at a family reunion. I need something instant, reliable, sound-capable, and *sigh* digital.

For you, a digital forum would yield better information on this topic.

Mitch

[npcoombs]

Without expensive, separate/add-on audio gear, prosumer videocam sound is pure crap across the board. No exceptions.
Adding sound is easy and fun, the most fun of the whole process.
Dialogue should be ADR'd whether you shoot film or tape.

Not really. Its not great, but with XLR inputs a Sennheiser can feed straight into the camera and all your footage is instantly synched! No need for a Maranz.

Even on board mics are not too bad (at least on my XL1) until you start getting fussy higher up the learning curve.

I think without a doubt you can learn more by starting with a prosumer digital camera. You can experiment more and learn faster what works and what doesn't.

That said, I think film as a medium can be experimented with once you have the basics down.

[Mitch Perkins]

Without expensive, separate/add-on audio gear, prosumer videocam sound is pure crap across the board. No exceptions.
Adding sound is easy and fun, the most fun of the whole process.
Dialogue should be ADR'd whether you shoot film or tape.

Not really. Its not great, but with XLR inputs a Sennheiser can feed straight into the camera and all your footage is instantly synched! No need for a Maranz.

Even on board mics are not too bad (at least on my XL1) until you start getting fussy higher up the learning curve.

Okay, in my opinion, without expensive, separate/add-on audio gear, prosumer videocam sound is pure crap across the board.

I think without a doubt you can learn more by starting with a prosumer digital camera. You can experiment more and learn faster what works and what doesn't.

OP is not looking to "learn".

If one wants to learn to shoot film, then shooting film is the best place to start. It's not like they're the same; tape will make you lazy and does not instill the respect required.
I often notice while shooting weddings on S8 [five this month!] that the image in the tape guy's LCD is brighter than the actual event being captured. That ain't happening with film.

That said, I think film as a medium can be experimented with once you have the basics down.

Not sure what to make of this statement; if the idea of shooting film is what truly moves you, then shooting tape is a waste of time.

To each his own.

Mitch

[Evan Kubota]

Dialogue should be ADR'd whether you shoot film or tape.

Yeah, right... under some circumstances, maybe, but by no means all the time.

It's sort of surprising to see how stupid many of the responses to this thread are. Anyone knows that film and video have different uses. If you need a video camera for something, a super 8 camera is not going to fit the bill.