16mm - The Next Step

Post by **Will2** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:36 pm

I put it to the experienced crowd:

I've been shooting with my Super 16 K-3 now for almost 2 years. I shoot mostly family footage with negative stocks and transfer via a local y-front telecine house to edit with Final Cut Pro.

I'm looking for a motorized camera, I'm sick of winding this thing and missing shots. I'd like to keep the expense under $1000 so here is what I'm looking at:

Scoopic 16M or MN

Beaulieu R16

I have a great meter, but I like the idea of automatic exposure sometimes. I also have a Kodak K-100 with 3 decent c-mount lenses so the Beaulieu could use these as well. I actually like the K-100 better than my K-3, but I need reflex lenses for focussing.

I realize that I will have to get anything checked out and possibly overhauled, but I'm ok with that.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Post by **twotoneska** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:32 pm

I have a Scoopic DS8, and love the design, and the fact that I can just shoot for however long I want to. The DS8's and the 16's are the same design, essentially, though the Canon's may be heavier than the R16. he advantage of the R16, though, is that you can change out lenses, though the Canon does have a pretty good lens.

Post by **Nigel** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:18 pm

Out of those two I would say the R16. If you had other choices I would suggest an Arri S.

Good Luck

Post by **filmamigo** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:46 pm

You hear a lot more complaints about the reliability of the R16.

I've never heard anyone complain about their failed/failing Scoopic... and they made a lot of those suckers.

Post by **Will2** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:41 pm

twotoneska wrote:I have a Scoopic DS8, and love the design, and the fact that I can just shoot for however long I want to.

What stocks are available for the DS8?

My local telecine shop can only handle 16mm and 35mm, but I wonder if they could handle Double 8 if I didn't get it separated...

Post by **twotoneska** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:46 am

Unfortunately, not much. John Schwind has some K40 left, and it looks like he'll be getting 100D, but as of right now, there are no negative stocks, or black and whites. Of course, as we all know, if the need was there, Kodak would supply... The need is there, but our level of need versus their perception of need, as we also know, are two different things.

Post by **audadvnc** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:32 am

You might consider stepping up to a CP-16R, a mirror reflex, lightmeter equipped crystal sync sound camera used for newsgathering in the 70's and 80's. It's also convertable to S16 if you so choose. But it'll probably be more than $1k.

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:21 am

I recommend a Kinor or similar Russian camera (the 16SP is an Arri S copy with variable speeds and variable shutter).

The 10-100 zoom that you get with the Kinor is far better than any C-mount lens I've used, with the possible exception of a 10mm Switar. Fairly quiet too, and 400' magazine is included. Neither option costs more than $650 or so. To me, this is much more attractive than paying $1000+ for a beat-to-shit CP-16R probably with an old, soft Angenieux. A Scoopic MS is overpriced at this point, although I do like the cameras. I wouldn't trust an R16 for my projects, but I guess they look nice enough. I personally like not having to constantly acquire C-mount lenses since the 10-100 zoom and .75x wide converter that came with the Kinor cover most situations.

Post by **jaxshooter** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:51 pm

I've used the Beaulieu R 16 extensively.You get a good one,they're very versatile and rugged, but they can be temperamental.Watch out when you thread them,the pressure plate can sometimes not seat properly and you end up with breathing footage.

The Scoopic is a great camera,I have the old grey one that everyone tells you to avoid,but then I couldn't beat the price,it was given to me free.The advantage of the Beaulieu is interchangeable lenses.Sure can be nice when you want a wide angle or shoot through a telescope or microscope, which I have done both with a Beaulieu.

Post by **vidwerk** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:45 pm

I've had my Scoopic 16M for about 4 years now. I love it.
Ultra rugged and reliable. Built like a tank. The auto exposure system works very well and it's super easy to load. Unfortunately the lens is fixed but is indeed quite sharp. For wider shots, I attach a Nizo UWL type III via a stepup ring. My biggest complaint about the Scoopic is the noise factor. Sounds like a lawn mower.

For a example, you can download the latest film I shot with it here.
(PC. right click, save target as.)(131MB)

http://www.vidwerk.ca/mov/1%20Regret.mov

vidwerk.

Post by **Actor** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:21 am

Will2 wrote:
twotoneska wrote:I have a Scoopic DS8, and love the design, and the fact that I can just shoot for however long I want to.
What stocks are available for the DS8?

My local telecine shop can only handle 16mm and 35mm, but I wonder if they could handle Double 8 if I didn't get it separated...

J & C Phote seems to still be selling the Foma.

Post by **teadub** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:10 pm

vidwerk wrote: For a example, you can download the latest film I shot with it here.
(PC. right click, save target as.)(131MB)

http://www.vidwerk.ca/mov/1%20Regret.mov

There are some really nice shots in there.

Post by **vidwerk** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:49 am

teadub wrote:
vidwerk wrote: For a example, you can download the latest film I shot with it here.
(PC. right click, save target as.)(131MB)

http://www.vidwerk.ca/mov/1%20Regret.mov
There are some really nice shots in there.

Thanks.

Post by **Will2** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:43 pm

Nigel wrote:Out of those two I would say the R16. If you had other choices I would suggest an Arri S.

Good Luck

Can you recommend someone that can overhaul an Arri S if I find one? Are they ok handheld? They seem rock solid and I know the pin registration is preferred. Are there any companies that can re-paint these things too? Most of the ones I see are pretty beat up.

Also, are they Super 16 upgradable?

Post by **Nigel** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:15 pm

Technically they are S16 upgradeable. It requires that you use a single PL mount. P+S Technik has the parts. It is rather expensive but it is do-able.

As for service there are a whole number of service outlets. There are no parts for them being made but there are plenty of spares floating around. If you get one make sure that it is at least the S/B model since the straight S is a weaker build. Who cares about the paint as long as it is in good running order...

http://www.seriousgear.com
http://www.cinematechnic.com

Are both good places for service. Axel Broda was a great guy to work on Arri cameras but I don't know if he is still around.

They are decent when used sans the 400' mag for handheld work. No Aaton but compact with just primes.

Good Luck