Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
It's always been a dream of mine to be able to transfer my films at the highest quality. The ultimate goal is to be able to shoot, process, transfer and master a DVD all in house without compromising quality at any stage. I built this system over the course of about 6 years so the pieces finally fell into place. I got it, it's on its way. Now all I need is a 3chip cam and my w/printer xp setup is almost ready to go. Anyone know where I can get hold of a reasonably priced 3chip industrial camera??Here is one for half the price http://cgi.ebay.com/4-way-macro-focusin ... dZViewItem
looks quite nice, glad to hear the bonsai works well...paulcotto wrote:Here is an 80 meg short uncompressed AVI for compairison>>
Negs and/or 16mm and/or more even illumination helps, too. ~:?)christoph wrote:looks quite nice, glad to hear the bonsai works well...paulcotto wrote:Here is an 80 meg short uncompressed AVI for compairison>>
unfortunately the highlights still blow out quite badly, which is one of the hardest things to correct (basically only a better camera or multi capture can work against that).
++ christoph ++
yeah, neg will help the highlights because of lower contrast, but will introduce the risk of poor color, banding and dust :P i'd suspect 16mm to have exactly the same problems with the same transfer unit though.Mitch Perkins wrote:Negs and/or 16mm and/or more even illumination helps, too. ~:?)christoph wrote:unfortunately the highlights still blow out quite badly, which is one of the hardest things to correct (basically only a better camera or multi capture can work against that).
it's K40 in super8 i think.Paul, what stock/guage is the footage? Looks like small guage reversal.
well, obviously you'll have to clip highlight at *some* point since the tv just cant reproduce the same range as a projection, but with high end machines the falloff will look much smoother.. also, what i was refering to is the large areas that are completely filled with white, and the red channel actually already clips in the fleshtones.You'll notice that high-end filmed TV shows often blow out highlights, but since it's 35mm colour neg, it just looks better - inherently more area/information.
Mitch Perkins wrote:Negs and/or 16mm and/or more even illumination helps, too. ~:?)christoph wrote:looks quite nice, glad to hear the bonsai works well...paulcotto wrote:Here is an 80 meg short uncompressed AVI for compairison>>
unfortunately the highlights still blow out quite badly, which is one of the hardest things to correct (basically only a better camera or multi capture can work against that).
++ christoph ++
Paul, what stock/guage is the footage? Looks like small guage reversal.
You'll notice that high-end filmed TV shows often blow out highlights, but since it's 35mm colour neg, it just looks better - inherently more area/information.
Mitch
How so, poor colour from the negs?christoph wrote:yeah, neg will help the highlights because of lower contrast, but will introduce the risk of poor color, banding and dustMitch Perkins wrote:Negs and/or 16mm and/or more even illumination helps, too. ~:?)christoph wrote:unfortunately the highlights still blow out quite badly, which is one of the hardest things to correct (basically only a better camera or multi capture can work against that).i'd suspect 16mm to have exactly the same problems with the same transfer unit though.
Did you already post the solution?christoph wrote:well, obviously you'll have to clip highlight at *some* point since the tv just cant reproduce the same range as a projection, but with high end machines the falloff will look much smoother.. also, what i was refering to is the large areas that are completely filled with white, and the red channel actually already clips in the fleshtones.You'll notice that high-end filmed TV shows often blow out highlights, but since it's 35mm colour neg, it just looks better - inherently more area/information.
been fighting with that myself for a while till i found a solution
++ christoph ++
because getting accurate colors from negatives requires a advanced color LUT (look-up table).. just adjusting the levels is not going to give accurate transfers.Mitch Perkins wrote:How so, poor colour from the negs?
because you only use about half of the range of the camera, then stretch it out and have to do serious color adjustments.. this will be slightly less of an issue if you capture in 10bits, however, most cameras have too much noise to make full advantage of this anyway.Why would negs band any more than reversal?
true, i just wanted to point out that it's a bigger issue then reversal on diy transfers ;)You can't not shoot the negs for fear of dust. PTRs, or an Iso "wetgate" help(s) a lot.
jeah, get a better ccd or do multi captures ;)Did you already post the solution?been fighting with that myself for a while till i found a solution
that will help the highlights but loose shadow details.. depending on the subject and your personal preferences, this might look better than blown out highlights though.Using the VX2000, I basically avoid clipping by dimming the light source until highlight detail is there, then white balancing to get the colours in line.
Okay. I'll not quibble over the difference between "poor", and "inaccurate". ~:?)christoph wrote:hi mitch,
a few clarifications to my comments...
because getting accurate colors from negatives requires a advanced color LUT (look-up table).. just adjusting the levels is not going to give accurate transfers.Mitch Perkins wrote:How so, poor colour from the negs?
I'm not certain of this, but I think with the turqoise filter in the light path to deal w/the orange mask, and the VX2000 inverting the image in realtime, more than half the range of the camera is being used. Again, I'm far less technically involved in this than you are, so perhaps I'm not even addressing your point.christoph wrote:because you only use about half of the range of the camera, then stretch it out and have to do serious color adjustments.. this will be slightly less of an issue if you capture in 10bits, however, most cameras have too much noise to make full advantage of this anyway.Why would negs band any more than reversal?
Yes, the negs are in love with dust more than reversal. My "wetgate" consists of two pads soaked in Isopropylene placed before takeup. The Iso stays on the film until through the gate, fillng/eliminating base scratches. The dust stays on the pads.christoph wrote:true, i just wanted to point out that it's a bigger issue then reversal on diy transfers ;)You can't not shoot the negs for fear of dust. PTRs, or an Iso "wetgate" help(s) a lot.
on the other hand, most professional transfers dont have a wetgate either for super8, so i guess you have a point there, maybe it's better to do it yourself.
btw, how does your wetgate work?
Add to that how good stuff looks xferred with a 3chip prosumer camera, and I can't justify spending any more cash.~:?)christoph wrote:jeah, get a better ccd or do multi captures ;)Did you already post the solution?been fighting with that myself for a while till i found a solution
the first is expensive though, and the second is slow and requires quite a lot of experience with digital post-production.
The negs have so much latitude you can have your highlights and shadows too - again, provided the film is properly exposed to begin with...christoph wrote:that will help the highlights but loose shadow details.. depending on the subject and your personal preferences, this might look better than blown out highlights though.Using the VX2000, I basically avoid clipping by dimming the light source until highlight detail is there, then white balancing to get the colours in line.
No worries - it's good to discuss these things. I have noticed I'm way less technical about the xfer than a lot of folks here. I always figured if looks good, then let's go. Hence the feature "Sleep Always". That was over five years ago, and the transfer is even better now!christoph wrote:btw, i'm not trying to criticise everything, most people are happy with the results they get and this is what counts in the end... i'm just trying to point out some things that personally i found to be an issue with diy transfers (actually, most of those points apply to professional services too, which is the main reason i started to do some research myself)
++ christoph ++
paulcotto wrote:That footage is K25 DS8 I think. I shot DS8 and K40 super-8 the same day so I cant remember which it is. I think if I adjust exposure to capture the highlights I can adjust the gamma to correct the rest. Keep in mind I just put this system together yesterday so I will get better results when I have more practice.
Regards,
Paul Cotto
