My new R8 transfer unit.

[christoph]

First, I'm gonna try some Luxeon power Led setups.

actually i did some tests with the white "5500K" 3W high power Luxeon LED and was kind of disappointed...
while the results looks ok if you cant compare it to anything else, there's definitely some weird shift in the colours that is noticable in comparison to a high CRI light source... even a 2800Kish 60W household bulb did better (which is what the workprinter uses too as far as i understand).
kinda made me wonder what the flashscan uses.

i thought about experimenting with a red green blue mix of LEDs or trying the "warm white" Luxeon (which has higher CRI at lower output), but since common halogens work so well i didn't bother - the only reason to use LEDs for me is if i need flashing pulses (for seperate RGB or IR passes).

as for diffusion:
a normal matte white card at a 45 deg angle that is illuminated by a slightly diffused halogen spot is nearly perfect.. the size/distance ratio of the card are the main factors for the amount of diffusion. a small card (and/or big distance to the film) makes for a sharper image with more visible grain (and scratches), a big card (or closer distance) gives very smooth results at the expense of sharpness.

++ christoph ++

[VideoFred]

actually i did some tests with the white "5500K" 3W high power Luxeon LED and was kind of disappointed...

I have them both, white 5500K and 'warm white' 3200K
But my problem with the Luxeons is: not enough light.

as for diffusion:
a normal matte white card at a 45 deg angle that is illuminated by a slightly diffused halogen spot is nearly perfect.. the size/distance ratio of the card are the main factors for the amount of diffusion. a small card (and/or big distance to the film) makes for a sharper image with more visible grain (and scratches), a big card (or closer distance) gives very smooth results at the expense of sharpness.

Ah!
Interesting! The 45° angle is to avoid direct light, right?
And how do you diffuse the spot? With filter gel?
Without any diffusion you see too much scrathes, right?

Fred.

[christoph]

But my problem with the Luxeons is: not enough light.

hmmm, do you have the 5W model? those are really quite bright..

The 45° angle is to avoid direct light, right?

well the angle doesnt seem to make too much of a difference... i used a pretty big bounce card (around 6x6cm, at 5cm distance) and the angle gives me a bit more room to work with.. but i also tried lighting it from the front (at a ca 20deg angle) and it looks nearly the same (and gives slightly more light output).

And how do you diffuse the spot? With filter gel?

jup, full WD (white diffusion).. mainly because i have it around and it doesnt eat too much light. anything that is heat resistant and color neutral will do though.

Without any diffusion you see too much scrathes, right?

actually the diffusion for the halo spot is just there to get an even illumination on the bounce card... the real diffusion comes from the card itself and it doesnt seem to matter much if it's light directly or through the WD. what matters is the size and the distance as mentioned above.
if you'd want to have no diffusion at all, you'd need a condenser type setup similair to the original projection system, but getting even illuminaton is tricky and the film looks quite grainy (but sharp)... and yes, a lot of dust and scratches will show up too ;)

++ christoph ++

[VideoFred]

hmmm, do you have the 5W model? those are really quite bright..

I have the 3W models ...
The 3200K warm white is not available in 5W
But this machine camera needs lots of light.

They also have an RGB power led

But for now, I'm going to try to get more light out of the 3W-3200K model. With a reflector or something.

Fred.

[JL Inc.]

Great work Fred!

What's the name of that machine slide that you're using?

[VideoFred]

What's the name of that machine slide that you're using?

I do not know... But I had to modify this one.
You can get hem where they sell mini lathes, for modelers use.

The unit is almost ready, now:

- The electronics are inside the projector, now.
- The micro switch is ready.

- I have made a new Luxeon warm white Led backlight,
It's based on reflection, no diffuser needed.
*Thanks to Christoph for the idea*

This 3200K warm white Led is 1Watt, not 3Watt like I mentioned above here.
It works fine on good exposed film.. The reflection gives a lot of light.
However, I am going to mount a second Led, because I need more light on dark scenes.
Both leds will be dimmed independent.

- I have made a remote control box, very easy to use.
With this remote control I can run forwards/backwards, fast/slow,
and I can regulate the Led backlight(s) with it.

First results from the unit with the Led backlight:

1958:


1970:


In full resolution:
http://users.telenet.be/ho-slotcars/Led ... klight.bmp
http://users.telenet.be/ho-slotcars/Led ... klight.bmp


I'm happy with this Led backlight.
Skin tones are very good.
Next project: an RGB Led light source for my other S8 unit.

*EDIT*
Christoph is right: halogen is a better light source then Leds.
It's the reflector principle that gives me better quality.
Halogen/reflector is the solution.
I am going to build it, and post the results in this thread.

Fred.

[Scotness]

Wow Fred - first thing I'm noticing is the even light from the LED - no highlights or hotspots - looks great - well done!

Scot

[VideoFred]

Wow Fred - first thing I'm noticing is the even light from the LED - no highlights or hotspots - looks great - well done!

Scot

Ah! 'Topic Reply Notification' I missed this..
Man! I'm happy the forum is back 8)

Hi Scot,

Yes, it's the reflector that gives the even light spreading.
Tomorrow I'm going to build the definitive version with two Leds.
I already can tell ultra bright white (matte) inkjet paper is very good for the reflecting surface.

Fred.

[JEFF]

Hi there Fred,
I as a new member have been very impressed with your tele cine projector modifications, resulting in my purchase of a Eumig 607D projector.
I have been experimenting with various lenses and micro switches to achieve the most positive non bounce pulses. I found that the roller micro switch as I had fitted it was’nt giving me such a regular pulse so have now changed it for a Honeywell ML3 micro switch fitted tightly behind the tensioning guide.,found that this needs to be precision ally adjusted ( I connected it to a pulse counter and found I got good results.) The lens has also now been changed to a ED. LIESEGANG DUSSELDORF PATRINAST 1:28 100mm. from e-bay. The lense is used without any modification except for the provision of an internal short piece of black electricians conduit tube, the Dusseldorf lens pushed tight to the body gives a perfectly in-focus image.The projector is selected to run at the 6 frames per sec position. My old 9.5mm films are at present copied using the old method shoot to screen , but think I will try to convert and old SPECTO projector next , after perfectly this project, a job for the winter months I think . Thank you very much for your original ideas Fred its got me hooked!
Hi there Fred, I as a new member have been very impressed with your tele cine projector modifications, resulting in my purchase of a Eumig 607D projector.
I have been experimenting with various lenses and micro switches to achieve the most positive non bounce pulses. I found that the roller micro switch as I had fitted it was’nt giving me such a regular pulse so have now changed it for a Honeywell ML3 micro switch fitted tightly behind the tensioning guide.,found that this needs to be precision ally adjusted ( I connected it to a pulse counter and found I got good results.) The lens has also now been changed to a ED. LIESEGANG DUSSELDORF PATRINAST 1:28 100mm. from e-bay. The lense is used without any modification except for the provision of an internal short piece of black electricians conduit tube, the Dusseldorf lens pushed tight to the body gives a perfectly in-focus image.The projector is selected to run at the 6 frames per sec position. My old 9.5mm films are at present copied using the old method shoot to screen , but think I will try to convert and old SPECTO projector next , after perfectly this project, a job for the winter months I think . Thank you very much for your original ideas Fred its got me hooked!
[list][/list]

[JL Inc.]

Impressive results Fred! Those frames looke great!

I've almost completed my DIY Telecine, but need some way to properly correct the image alignment so that's it's not upside down if I choose to record in realtime to DV.

[Scotness]

You can just flip it with your NLE software - or perhaps mount your camera upside down??

Scot

[VideoFred]

micro switches to achieve the most positive non bounce pulses.

Hi Jeff,

Welcome to this forum and thank you for the positive feedback 8)

If you connect the micro switch to a pulse counter,
you could put a 'Schmidt Trigger' between it, to avoid contact bouncing.
In fact, this is what happens if you connect the micro switch to
a computer mouse, because the mouse has a build in Schmidt Trigger.

So you are working with the famous Pathé 9,5mm format?
I sure would like to see some of it...


@JL:
Welcome to the forum too, and thanks for feedback, too 8)

Like Scott says, mounting the camera upside down is a possible solution to rotate the picture 180°. Then mirror it with software.

My cam is mounted upside down, and I mirror the picture with the camera software, before capturing.


Fred.

[JL Inc.]

Thanks for the welcome! I've lurked on the site for some time but had to get involved because of all the great ideas and DIY Telecine projects on here!

Thanks Scot and Fred, I understand what you guys are saying about flipping the image using NLE software, I sometimes use avisynth if needed to correctly rotate the image, so that I can then encode to DVD. That's if I don't need to edit or colour correct of course!

But I would also like to rig some sort of a lens system for my DIY Telecine in which all the optics and/or mirrors and prisms are set so that the image is properly aligned as I'm recording directly to DV via my 3CCD camera in realtime. Basically 20fps for super8 and 15fps for regular8.

Actually, and if possible, I'd prefer not to use any mirrors or prisms and the least amount of optical elements since the image would be further degraded. Basically something similiar to Roger's Sniper and Solo Scanning Modules, although I'm not sure how and what optics are used to correctly rotate the image so that it's properly aligned, and yet still be able to point directly at the film gate without the use of mirrors and prisms.

Thus far I'm using an Elmo K110 Dual 8 projector with the zoom lens removed, an opal difussers, a low wattage bulb, and a raynox macro lens threaded on my camera pointing directly at the gate. I then rotate the image once the footage is on my harddrive. I'll start a new topic in the next few days and showcase some pictures of my setup and the results I'm getting, along with some of the improvements I hope to see.

However, my Elmo zoom lens is made of two removable elements, one is the enlarger (fixed focal length), and the other is the actual zoom lens (adjustable). I've taken just the enlarger component and mounted it in the projector's socket, as usual. I then used a Raynox 24x macro lens aimed directly at the enlarger and to my suprise the image was no longer upside down, but then I noticed it was inverted horizontally. I'll keep working on it and see how things go!

Thanks!

[JEFF]

Hi Fred, Thanks very much for the welcome,i have just solved the problem of mounting my tele cine camera upside down , yet giving me fine accurate setup alignment facility by using an old robust photographic enlarger stand with its up/ down fine control, on which ive mounted my inverted camera bracket, and the enlarger tubular rod base fixing mount . The projector being mounted on a shared base board with the camera adjustable stand .I am very pleased with the rock steady results.
I have tried to paste a picture of this set up without success also tried the img box ,can someone please explain the picture upload sequence to a thickie! Many Thanks jeff

[MovieStuff]

Actually, and if possible, I'd prefer not to use any mirrors or prisms and the least amount of optical elements since the image would be further degraded.

If you use a true first surface mirror to rectify the image, you will never see any degradation of the image. The use of "mirror boxes" that you find on ebay degrade the image because they are using a chromed piece of metal instead of a true first surface mirror and are collecting the image on a rear projection screen, which is crap. We use first surface mirrors in our WorkPrinter and CineMate units and they work fine. But using extension tubes and micro lenses is more convenient because it reduces the number of surfaces you have to keep clean and also makes for easier alignment.

Basically something similiar to Roger's Sniper and Solo Scanning Modules, although I'm not sure how and what optics are used to correctly rotate the image so that it's properly aligned, and yet still be able to point directly at the film gate without the use of mirrors and prisms.

The film is always going to be upside down in the gate of the projector. That is normal. The image our Sniper and Solo modules capture is upside down but is flipped by special software during the speed change portion of the process. If you want the camera to point straight at the film, you either need to capture through the base or have a camera with an electronic flip built in.

Hope this helps....

Roger