Fujica P2 and Single Cinevia

[super8france]

Hi!!

Why my single 8 Cinevia is dark with my P2 camera ?
I have not problem with 200T or 25N ?
I don't understand why?
cause of Retro 8 processing?

Fréddy
http://www.super8france.com

[jpolzfuss]

Possible reasons:
a) You forgot to remove the lens cap ;)
b) You had your finger before the exposure-meter's lens ;)
c) The exposure-meter's lens is dirty
d) The exposure-meter, the iris or the shutter is broken
e) The camera's ASA-detector is damaged and hence can only detect 25 and 200 ASA correctly, but not 50 ASA
f) There was a problem when re-notching the 25ASA-cartridge to 50ASA, hence the camera didn't had a chance to detect the correct value
g) Muddy Orihara reported some problems with the film-transport when using the Cinevia in his Canon-Single8-cameras (film got stuck, see http://muddy8mm.howto.cx/ ). There have been similar reports with other acetate-based filmstocks, e.g. the Retro-X, in some specimen of the Fujica ZC1000/Z800
h) Problem with the film before he reached you or during shipping back
i) last but not least: problems while developping (<- but this would have been the first report!)
j) ...

Jörg

[super8france]

a) You forgot to remove the lens cap
NO
b) You had your finger before the exposure-meter's lens
no
c) The exposure-meter's lens is dirty
NO
d) The exposure-meter, the iris or the shutter is broken
It is not possible, the RT200N is correct
e) The camera's ASA-detector is damaged and hence can only detect 25 and 200 ASA correctly, but not 50 ASA
Perhaps
f) There was a problem when re-notching the 25ASA-cartridge to 50ASA, hence the camera didn't had a chance to detect the correct value
Perhaps
g) Muddy Orihara reported some problems with the film-transport when using the Cinevia in his Canon-Single8-cameras (film got stuck, see http://muddy8mm.howto.cx/ ). There have been similar reports with other acetate-based filmstocks, e.g. the Retro-X, in some specimen of the Fujica ZC1000/Z800
I don't understand japanese language

h) Problem with the film before he reached you or during shipping back
i) last but not least: problems while developping (<- but this would have been the first report!)
Perhaps
j) ...

I have 5 Cinevia. How know?
I noticed that the value was relatively closed.

[super8france]

If a person uses this camera and this film, I would like to know.
On my cartridges there are an adhesive, normal?

[gianni1]

You are the pioneer. Thanks for sharing with us. Not too many of us here are shooting Single 8 at this time. Anybody else?

My guess is that it's a battery problem, or your P2's meter itself is screwed. Can you trust that meter? Get another P2. Alternatively stick to 25 and 200 speed films.

Reversal film is unforgiving. You need to do clip tests and home process it yourself, or use several rolls to get to know how much of a netural density filter to place over the light sensor, or lens itself.

Use negative film instead, but for that, we'll need to wait for reloadable single 8 carts and use Kahl's or Wittner's film stock.

By the way, you have such a cool web site, and I thought I had a lot of projectors!

Also since your questions are so brief, try writing in French as well as english, some of us know a bit of francais too!

Gianni

[super8france]

Je comprends l'anglais mais j'ai quelquefois du mal à écrire l'anglais c'est vrai.

Je vous écris maintenant en français en espérant que vous comprendrez.

J'utilise la caméra Fujica P2 qui fonctionne trés bien avec les pellicules FUJI RT200N ou R25N
J'ai acheté 5 chargeurs Single 8 Cinevia chez Retro 8.
J'ai fait un essai avec un chargeur, j'ai attendu 1 mois.
Le résultat : le film est trés sombre

Pourtant j'ai filmé uniquement en extérieur avec beaucoup de soleil.

Ce qui est bizzare, c'est que le diaphrame est souvent sur F11 et F16.

Je possède une 2 ème caméra P2.
La valeur est différente F5.6

[Sasounet]

Translation follows.

Je possède une Fujica P2 et selon moi, une exposition de F11-F16 en plein soleil et avec un film 50 ASA semble correct.

Un problème que j'ai de temps a autre avec ma P2 est que le diaphragme coince à une ouverture donnée même si la luminosité change. Une légère secousse de la caméra ramene l'ouverture a sa juste valeur.

Je n'ai pas encore essayé le Cinevia 50 en Single 8. S.V.P nous tenir au courrant des résultats.



I also have a Fujica P2 and, in my experience, the meter reading F11-F16 in a bright day with a 50 ASA film is correct.

I sometime have a problem with my P2 where the meter would stock at a particular opening even when the light change. Shaking the camera slightly usually solve the problem.

I have not yet tried the Cinevia 50 in Single8. Please keep us posted with your results.

Je comprends l'anglais mais j'ai quelquefois du mal à écrire l'anglais c'est vrai.

Je vous écris maintenant en français en espérant que vous comprendrez.

J'utilise la caméra Fujica P2 qui fonctionne trés bien avec les pellicules FUJI RT200N ou R25N
J'ai acheté 5 chargeurs Single 8 Cinevia chez Retro 8.
J'ai fait un essai avec un chargeur, j'ai attendu 1 mois.
Le résultat : le film est trés sombre

Pourtant j'ai filmé uniquement en extérieur avec beaucoup de soleil.

Ce qui est bizzare, c'est que le diaphrame est souvent sur F11 et F16.

Je possède une 2 ème caméra P2.
La valeur est différente F5.6

[super8france]

Personnellement je pense que c'est peut être avec ma deuxième caméra que j'arriverais à faire un essai (celle qui tourne autour de F5.6) parce la première caméra n'indique que F11 ou F16 et c'est trop fermé. C'est d'ailleurs peut être à cause de celà que j'ai une image trop sombre.

Il faut donc que j'attends de nouveau 1 mois pour un résultat.

[super8france]

En effet, comme je l'ai déjà dit ma premiere camera P2 (celle qui ouvre a F 11 F16) m'a rendu un film Cinevia trés sombre sur toute la longueur du film. J'essayerais donc avec une deuxième caméra P2 pour voir si le problème ne vient pas d'une de mes caméras.

[Roel]

I'm waiting for a roll of single8 Cinevia to return from processing in Germany.

Shot the film with ZC-1000 and the 10mm leicina/cinegon. Will let you know how it turned out as soon as I have the film back.

Greetings from Holland!

[super8france]

ok Roel. Thank you

But if you used th Fujica P2 & Cinevia.
You can send me your results.

[super8france]

ok Roel. Thank you

But if you used th Fujica P2 & Cinevia.
You can send me your results.

[jpolzfuss]

Salut,

according to the "Schmalfilm" Tak Kohyama tested the Cinevia in his own P2 (Tak Kohyama = owner of Retro8). And it worked fine in that camera. Hence there doesn't seem to be a general problem with this camera-model.
In other words: To me it looks like your problem is either caused by your camera or while producing/shipping/processing the film.

IMHO the tape can be considered normal since the cartridge is a recycled fuji-cartridge and the first fuji-cartridges (up to approx. 1975) have only been locked by a tape, too.

g) Muddy Orihara reported some problems with the film-transport when using the Cinevia in his Canon-Single8-cameras (film got stuck, see http://muddy8mm.howto.cx/ ). There have been similar reports with other acetate-based filmstocks, e.g. the Retro-X, in some specimen of the Fujica ZC1000/Z800
I don't understand japanese language

That webpage has got an English section (that doesn't contain all articles) and you can use altavista's babelfish-webpage-translator. The babelfish-results are sometimes very strange (e.g. cinevia turns into "cinema beer film"), but you can get at least the text's meaning. ;)

Nevertheless here's what I think why the film gets stuck in some cameras:
a) the pressure plate might get stuck in a position where it still works fine with the fujichrome, but the thicker Cinevia is pressed too hard against the film gate, causing the motor to "give up".
b) the Cinevia is thicker and less flexible = the motor will have to work harder to transport the film. And the motor is now 30 years old (or older) and might need to be serviced/replaced.
c) Last, but not least: IMHO all cameras produced after 1967 haven't been tested with acetate-based film (they probably haven't even been designed to work with acetate-based film).

AFAIK you could simply use the camera's "film confirmation window" ("fenêtre de contrôle de chargeur") to see if the film get's transported or not. (E.g. as described in French on page 23 in this multi-language manual for the P2:
http://www.single8film.com/p2_endefres.pdf )

Taking a look at the exposure-meter's needle might help, too - just see if it reacts as expected.

Jörg

[jean]

Do you have a light meter to compare? Just take some readings against a something like a wall (so you can rule out errors - like camera meters sky and your light meter the pavement). If both read the same, then the camera should be OK. Hint: you have to set the light meter to the same ISO and shutter speed than the P2.

OR, try to move the sensor that reads the ISO by hand and see how the diaphragm reacts.

Check the film transportation. the P2 has a convenient counter, stop 1 second (or 10 seconds, if you prefer) and see how many frames have been taken. If it's reasonably close to the 18fps than you have another factor ruled out.

LAST not least - the P2 uses mercury cells, which don't exist anymore. So you either have to use wincells which correspond to the original mercury cells or normal batteries, which makes the meter underexpose by a full stop and require a correction. This would be my first guess for your problem.

This may not explain why the other film turned out fine, but at least you can rule out possible issues.

[super8france]

thank you very much for this informations. I will make tests with another P2 camera and I would keep you informed. In connection with Tak, I bought films with Retro 8, it says that he don't want to have any more business with me. He dislikes french people.

I am really disappointed. I would buy my films now elsewhere.

Si vous avez fait des films avec la pellicule Cinevia, je suis trés interessé pour connaître vos impressions et vos remarques.