E64T - First impressions

[JCook]

The differences are very noticable, the grain on the 64 sticks out like a sore thumb and the blue sky color is way over saturated (looks almost anime) and the warm (pinkish) sky color in the K40 shot makes me wonder about filter, transfer technique etc.

But to be honest, I don't think you could have chosen two more diverse shots to do an A/B comparison with if you tried...I like the content in both photos but hard to compare apples and oranges.

Regards, John

[mattias]

wait, is this gonna be a thread about how natural colors k40 produces? that's hilarious. it was only a year ago when people were going on about how great and vividly saturated the colors were with k40, how they really stood out and how a blue sky really popped. i'm one of the few who disagreed, but maybe that's simply because i've shot it. i always tend to forget that the majority of people here don't actually shoot film but get enough creative kicks out of watching the odd comparison clip online. ;-)

/matt

[tlatosmd]

wait, is this gonna be a thread about how natural colors k40 produces? that's hilarious. it was only a year ago when people were going on about how great and vividly saturated the colors were with k40, how they really stood out and how a blue sky really popped.

While the other party was saying that K40 would look as over-saturated, vintage, and silly as Technicolor so 64T could be nothing less than superior in terms of less and thus more modern saturation. What happened was the opposite, 64T looks much more vintage than K40 does, like what modern people think of when they hear 'S8 amateur homemovie', not only about the colors but also about its nasty kind of grain.

I repeat, what your original scene looked like in comparison to the result on film doesn't matter to the viewer, what matters to him is what he sees on the screen. With 64T, he can't see any of that latitude if he hasn't been there at the set and especially if he doesn't know anything about photography, all he sees are candy "crayon" colors and multi-colored grain so big "it looks like crawling ants on the film".

[mattias]

While the other party was saying that K40 would look as over-saturated, vintage, and silly as Technicolor so 64T could be nothing less than superior in terms of less and thus more modern saturation.

i disagree. the highly saturated reversal look is extremely now and was never seen before in the history of film. k40 as well as the various technicolor processes saturate some colors and desaturate some, creating a look that's different from all modern film stocks, which all have basically the same color space only with different saturation and contrast.

what your original scene looked like in comparison to the result on film doesn't matter to the viewer

wow, i can only imagine the horrors your high school professors must be going through every single day. do you *ever* listen?

/matt

[tlatosmd]

what your original scene looked like in comparison to the result on film doesn't matter to the viewer

wow, i can only imagine the horrors your high school professors must be going through every single day. do you *ever* listen?

I'll let you in on a little secret: Outdoing general population average concerning languages and the humanities alone won't get you into high school, no matter your profound interests and wide knowledge on these matters. Some educators use to call that Teilleistungsstörungen in German by emphasizing lack of interest in other subjects instead, while I was the only person on my 2,000 students school not suffering of dyslexia and attending special dyslexia disorder treatment classes. Most of those dyslexics did get into high school barely able to read out a sentence, lacking the ability to form an orthographically and grammatically correct simple sentence using proper punctuation, or to tell a verb from a noun, but I didn't. Welcome to "leftist", "reform", "tolerant" comprehensive school where teachers expect achieving nothing more than stopping students from smashing furniture too loudly during classes!

Furthermore it's hard when you know your year's marks are destined not by your answers or your reasoning but during the very first microseconds of first class for a certain type of teacher, by your body language and social communication, reasons that gave rise to rumours behind my back of being a crack or heroin addict in 6th or 7th grade. Or that my overall IQ in absolute numbers would be below 70 as evidenced by an "IQ test" consisting exclusively of algebra after I'd initially said that I have no way with figures beforehand.

I've always had A+ in spelling and grammar in German classes, without any exceptions, but my teacher pleased to sum up all those individual A+ marks as giving me D- in every semester report. Same teacher accused me of not having read All quiet on the Western front as we had been supposed to, to which I initially replied that I'd read the book several times during elementary school already. Lesson continued with ping-pong communication between him and me, him asking short questions, me giving long replies on the plot, structure, historical context, and reception history of the novel, until I took the floor by giving an irate impromptu speech on politics and culture in the Weimar republic, during WWI, during the Bismarck empire, and socio-historical interdependencies between those three eras, which was ended by my teacher shouting at me I obviously had no interest in or any knowledge about the book nor history, and he sent me back to my seat. This was the same teacher who later had a high school class exclusively of those girls he'd used to frequently touch and hold their backs and bottoms during middle school classes, boasting out to the class about their supposed text interpretation skills while doing so.

For years my Latin teacher gave me D marks, but when I got another Latin teacher, half a year later with much less effort and participation during classes from my side she gave me a B. When I gave a paper I'd written on 18th and 19th century imperialism up to WWI, citing all my sources in footnotes and illustrated with lots of photos, maps, and drawings I'd scanned or copied from the net, to my social sciences teacher in 9th grade, he accused me of plagiarism as he wrote with a red pen on it, though not giving any reason or sources I'd allegedly plagiarized, and he sent me to the beginner's class instead of his class.

On the other hand, I've had a number of teachers to whom my university student time was not a matter of "if", but only of "as soon as", likening my literary style of writing to Franz Kafka or Roald Dahl (while I'd actually had mostly some Stephen King short stories in the back of my mind during writing), for example, or my paradigms of structurizing human history to those of Hegel, Marx, and Freud, my style of thinking to these and also to Rousseau, Kant, and Darwin.

[Angus]

Not quite the same scenarios, but you can still see the differences.

What were the lighting conditions in each? Are we comparing apples and oranges again? I suspect if I really tried I could produce a still from each stock which "proved" K40 responds better to over-exposure than 64T...

If you shoot in dull conditions, then yes...Kodachrome looks dull.

And Mattias...I've shot a few thousand rolls of super 8 K40 and plenty of 35mm K25 and K64 slides. Kodachrome is not dull.

[Old Uncle Barry]

Here we go again,all the "Deep and meaningful" bullshit.We are dealing with FILM here and individual findings.Not a lecture on how people communicate.
Cut the crap and get a life.Get my drift tlatosmd?

[T-Scan]

If you shoot in dull conditions, then yes...Kodachrome looks dull.

But that is not the case with E6 films. Even when they are under exposed, or shooting in dreary situations, the colors still pop. The only color that ever popped with K40 were the reds really, but now we have yellow, blue, and green.

[Freya]

Here we go again,all the "Deep and meaningful" bullshit.We are dealing with FILM here and individual findings.Not a lecture on how people communicate.
Cut the crap and get a life.Get my drift tlatosmd?

I think it was just that mattias made referance to the s word which for some people was a terrible and traumatic experience.

I didn't think it was, or meant to be, deep and meanigful, but was just someone describing one aspect of their life experience, but you are right it is very out of context.

I'm a bit disturbed to hear about this sort of experience in Germany. I think it was the referance to the sound of smashing furniture that sounded a bit too familiar, I guess Germanys well on the way out too. It's a shame I really like Germany.

Anyway back to that stuff, what was it again, oh yes, film we were talking about film! It is so easy to forget! ;)

love

Freya

[Freya]

With referance to the 64T picture that was posted, do you think you could key on that sky!!!!

Honestly it looks chroma blue to me!

If you could key on it then I guess you could have whatever colour sky your heart desired. ;) Maybe you could even put the sea up there!

love

Freya

[Freya]

If you shoot in dull conditions, then yes...Kodachrome looks dull.

But that is not the case with E6 films. Even when they are under exposed, or shooting in dreary situations, the colors still pop. The only color that ever popped with K40 were the reds really, but now we have yellow, blue, and green.

Not sure what you mean by popped but I found green could be quite vivid and saturated on Kodachrome too! Blue not as much but maybe that was a good thing. ;)

The colours in Kodachrome tend to be, erm very vivid, in fact I think they make old things look brand new, like they had just been painted.

Mattias is right that it was just certain colours and not across the board, but then I think that is a good thing as if it was across the board it would look even more wild then it already does and some people might say that Kodachrome is a bit extreme already! ;)

I happen to like Kodachrome. I always wanted to design sets and costumes to really emphasize the Kodachrome effect but I don't have time for that now.

The colour neg stocks probably give the most natural effect however.

I've not got any experience with 64T, and I have to confess I'm not very drawn to it.

love

Freya

[T-Scan]

K40 may look saturated in comparison to mini DV or the old VNF, but honestly has got to be the least saturated MP film I have shot of existing Kodak stocks, and I've pretty much used them all.

[Mogzy]

what your original scene looked like in comparison to the result on film doesn't matter to the viewer

wow, i can only imagine the horrors your high school professors must be going through every single day. do you *ever* listen?

Welcome to "leftist", "reform", "tolerant" comprehensive school where teachers expect achieving nothing more than stopping students from smashing furniture too loudly during classes!

Completely OT, but when I was taught German at school we were told that Germany retained a 4-tier selective education system?

In Britain Comprehensive education is the norm apart from a few tiny areas where the Local Education Authority refused to get rid of it. I went to one of the few remaining free grammar schools. You probably would have fitted right in by the sounds of it. Bring back selection! (OK maybe time for me to shift to another forum on this one... )

The only film related topic is that when I started in 1996 we were shown a science film on an old 16mm projector...

[Angus]

I attended a private school run by hippies....I now work in a London comprehensive....some culture shock!

While I enjoy the experience and find this place a great melting pot of cultures, I have always felt a need for some selection. I do not see why some schools should not choose to select, so that parents who wish can try to send their kids there...the school I work for has always chosen not to select - and that's fine too, for parents who choose to send their kids here. Internally of course from age 13 onwards we start splitting year groups into higher, mixed and lower ability classes.

As for film....I used to shoot super 8 here but getting permission to film schoolkids these days is like drawing blood from a stone. Last time I even attempted it was shooting some Vision2 200T at the Science Museum...I just happened to also be on a school trip.

We have two 16mm projectors in the science department...languishing away in the toilets. I got one working a couple of years ago, I am told they used to have super 8 sound projectors too but jettisoned them in the mid 90's.

[tlatosmd]

wow, i can only imagine the horrors your high school professors must be going through every single day. do you *ever* listen?

Welcome to "leftist", "reform", "tolerant" comprehensive school where teachers expect achieving nothing more than stopping students from smashing furniture too loudly during classes!

Completely OT, but when I was taught German at school we were told that Germany retained a 4-tier selective education system?

During the 70s, the comprehensive school was added to our educational menu as an additional option.

Your marks at the end of 4th grade still decide whether you should go to a secondary modern school (goes up to grade 9), grammar school (goes up to grade 10), Gymnasium (goes up to grade 13), or to a special learning disabilities school. But if your parents decide your marks did not portray your true potential, they'll send you to a comprehensive school (up to grade 13 as well, but including the other two degrees just as well) instead which is a legal thing to do.

So actually, comprehensive schools have become a pool of learning disabilities as well as disabilities of social skills. Those that would go to high school pretty much only differed from the rest by not beating up people but insulting them verbally instead.

Combine that with a completely frustrated and overaged teaching staff with an age averaging in the mid-60s with too little teachers for the school that couldn't afford them. There was no day we didn't have several lessons off because our teachers were skipping work. We used to have a weekly lesson cancelling plan in our caffeteria hall.

It would be silly to deny there were some problems with pupils from immigrant families. But other than some right-wingers, I wouldn't blame that on themselves and deport them right back to a "home" they haven't even been born in. Their behaviour was rather inevitable due to how they and their families were treated for being immigrants. Their religion had nothing to do with it.

In our middle school buildings all toilet rooms were constantly locked because mirrors would get smashed, and there were lots of classrooms that didn't have any doors anymore due to vandalism. Our classes were divided into 9th/10th grade degree courses and 13th grade degree courses since grade 7, and often-times you found nomadic 13th grade degree courses roaming through the school during classes because they couldn't find an unoccupied room, often giving up by canceling the particular lesson. The only time our school ever got money from our city's education authority, of all things they spent it on were a new facade for the street-facing side of that one building visible from the street, and new flagpoles in front of it.