E64T - First impressions

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super8manchester
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E64T - First impressions

Post by super8manchester »

Right, I know well that this is a subject which has been talked about ever since E64T came out but I decided to post this anyway...

I've just got back my three first rolls of E64T from processing, cutaways for a TV documentary, and have been in deep shock ever since! This film is absolutely horrible! The grain is really big and the details aren't good. Actually it seems like there are ants running on the picture - so grainy is the picture. I wouldn't even mention this film in the same sentence with the good old K40 which was a proper quality film with unnoticeable grain.

The colours are another matter! Gone are the vivid, pulsating colours of K40, come the saturated and pale colours. I used an external 85B filter with all the films so this is what Kodak thinks the colours should be like. All the rolls were filmed with Nizo S800 so the exposure should have also been correct and the camera definitely isn't the weakest link of the shooting. Is this what the film really is like? The films were bought from the Widescreen Centre in London and processed there (or sent somewhere else for processing) - is it just that I had a bad lab?

My shock was so great that I'm actually thinking of giving up S8 filming completely, at least colour filming, especially as most of my cameras can't handle ISO 64 and have to use external 85B filters. If the quality is actually this bad I'm not gonna use this format any more (at least in colour). I can't think of anything else than the superior quality of K40 - it didn't really matter what kind of camera you had, my most beautiful shots ever were taken with a Sankyo pocket camera in a canooing trip in Finland. E64T has killed my dear hobby! :cry: :cry: :cry:

After spending all my miserable pennies to S8 equipment for years the only option I can think now is to move to Single-8. Cheers a lot for this, Kodak!
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Post by fireflame productions »

This may seem like a dum question but , Hey, I'm only thirteen ready to shoot my first three rolls of 64T.
Why did kodak get rid of K40 (i mean "glorious K40) and is there any change of its return?
Do you know that single 8 is being discontinued so you only have at the most a couple of years to try it.

Myself, i might be moving on to 16mm soon. That's if the widescreen centre's prices are processed paid.
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Post by Justin Lovell »

did you project the film or have it transferred.. that could be another 'weak link'.
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Post by super8manchester »

jusetan wrote:did you project the film or have it transferred.. that could be another 'weak link'.
I projected the film as I used to do with all my K40s - haven't had it telecined it yet and won't have if the quality is that bad. In the future it'll probably be easier and definitely much cheaper to film everything on DVCAM and put the footage through some kind of post-production programme which can make it to look like S8. I know it's not the same at all but as far as I'm considered, Kodak has killed colour S8 by killing K40.
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Post by Mogzy »

Don't give up! 64T isn't great, but there is an alternative in the form of repackaged Kodak Ektachrome 100D from Pro8mm in the States or Wittner in Europe.

100D is being considered for release by Kodak soon, and it works in nearly all 40T/160T only cameras.

I've used it and it looks great, preserving the bright colours and finest grain of Kodachrome 40. Try some and your faith will be restored!

If Kodak are still monitoring via Mr Pytlak, I think they should note that around three-quarters of Super 8 users who have used both prefer 100D. Personally, it's my new favourite stock.

See the poll. Good luck!
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Re: E64T - First impressions

Post by Mitch Perkins »

super8manchester wrote:Right, I know well that this is a subject which has been talked about ever since E64T came out but I decided to post this anyway...

I've just got back my three first rolls of E64T from processing, cutaways for a TV documentary, and have been in deep shock ever since! This film is absolutely horrible!
viewtopic.php?t=14142

Mitch
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Post by super8manchester »

fireflame productions wrote: Do you know that single 8 is being discontinued so you only have at the most a couple of years to try it.
Just read the news on another forum.

DOH!!!! :x

Seems that the small film formats are really dying.
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Re: E64T - First impressions

Post by Dre »

super8manchester wrote: I can't think of anything else than the superior quality of K40 - it didn't really matter what kind of camera you had, my most beautiful shots ever were taken with a Sankyo pocket camera in a canooing trip in Finland. E64T has killed my dear hobby! :cry: :cry: :cry:
What about Velvia 50D offered by spectra. I’m pretty excited about this film. From examples I’ve seen it blows E64T and K40 out of the water. Look here at some awesome frame grabs posted by T-Scan. Don’t kill your hobby just because of one bad film stock.
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Post by T-Scan »

Why did kodak get rid of K40 (i mean "glorious K40) and is there any change of its return?
K40 is sooo over rated. I just retransferred some the other night from 2 years ago, and the colors appear totally washed out in comparison to the E6 films I've been shooting since it's demise. If Kodak released the 100D, it will have similar grain as K40 did but with all the added benifits of a more modern film stock.
100D and Vision 3 please
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Post by Evan Kubota »

"K40 is sooo over rated. I just retransferred some the other night from 2 years ago, and the colors appear totally washed out in comparison to the E6 films I've been shooting since it's demise. If Kodak released the 100D, it will have similar grain as K40 did but with all the added benifits of a more modern film stock."

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...

are these stocks available from Kodak for $10 and change, and is processing under $5? Thought not.
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Post by tlatosmd »

That's right Super8manchester, you ought to check out Velvia 50D. Since you're in Europe, you can get it from http://www.super8.nl in the Netherlands, Wittner Kinotechnik (under the name WittnerchromeV50D, currently sold out but they'll get more) or GK Film in Germany.
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Re: E64T - First impressions

Post by mattias »

super8manchester wrote:saturated and pale.
um, okay...

/matt
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Post by tlatosmd »

I suppose what S8Manchester means is over-saturated with a low contrast.
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Post by T-Scan »

tlatosmd wrote:I suppose what S8Manchester means is over-saturated with a low contrast.
as opposed to contrasty with minimal saturation? I can sell him a single chip miniDV cam that may suite his needs.
100D and Vision 3 please
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Post by gianni1 »

Don't take offence please at my being judgmental!


The 8mm goddess is not pleased with your Video-istic attitude..

You need to explore this media a lot more prior to a big shoot.

In what other media would you expect to be totally fluent on the first try? Only stupid camcorders and point and shoot cameras allow the absolute amateurs to get the perfect image on the first time.

You have been seduced by the Evil Video Spirit. A typical amateur they say. They influenced you to foolishly belive you can shoot on the big day without testing and practice. It's your own fault for not using 200T Color Negative Film. That would be the choice for TV shots. E6 is for home movies, unless you practiced plenty, with about five or ten carts and examined the results of the 64T prior to the big shoot.

Your mistake is thinking the results are bad. Again this is from believing the evil video spirit propaganda that video methodology rules. I say your results are good, and you are blind with predjudice. Video is for truth, 8mm film is for memory. Does you film, with it's grain and 'effects' provide a memory of the experience? Celebrate its unique look and declare mastery the medium! Can you remember the properties and circumstances of the shoot and recreate the experience again?

~If you have no reflection of your media expereince for future reference, your are not a master of the media, you are just a user. ~

If you do weddings, news, drama, docs or especially TV production, it's your responsibility test and to know what to expect. Isn't that part of using any medium, except for comsumer camcorder video? The more sophisticated tools, the easier it gets to screw up, except with consumer kit.

You cannot expect Super 8 & E6 to behave like a camcorder. E6 is very unforgiving for anything other than the standard point and shoot, average picture. I bet you violated and did not follow the typical standard consumer formulas in your TV cutaway shots.

Did you obey the sunny 16 rule with light over and behind your shoulder, with only closeups, small groups of people and scenics in the distance? I bet you were trying to be creative with odd camera angles, shadows, strange lighting, backlights, and other non conformist POV's...

Damn I hate those automatic cameras, and they hate me too! Why? Because I always point the lens at the sun to take pics of God, shoot on stormy and rainy days, or in the bath, where the manual says I'm in danger from electric shock or getting stuck by lightning. I have to cover the light sensor or flash with black or colored tape. I shoot film years after it's sell by date, and I process it in the wrong chemistry, and constantly consider making my own capture devices and media.

~ Filming will set you free ~

Gianni :wink:
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