Is film archaic / about to die soon?

[sonickel]

Hello everyone,

I've been camera assisting on a Super 16 student shoot lately. A professional cinematographer (who's been supervising us) said that digital is the future, and that young people like us should be learning digital, and not film. That film was archaic and had no future.

Do you agree?
I feel rather depressed now....

[ECNtoo]

well lets analyze this comment.

kodak had their best cinema film slaes ever last year.

negative stock is now available in 8mm with more stocks being considered by kodak.

film will eventually be dead, but if thats ten years from now are you willing to learn skills for ten years from now?

consider your sourse. just becuase somebody says something doesnt mean its true or that they are qualified to make such statements.

i think the death of film was predicted around fourty years ago. i think the article i read said back then it had a life of five years at most.

so, you tell me if film is dead, especially since knowing film bacwards can only make you better off than those just knowing digital.

[kentbulza]

Good art schools continue to teach traditional techniques regardless of application because where we've come from helps us know where we're going. If we consider filmmaking a craft, then I don't see why it should be any different. So I don't think it's a question which you learn because the answer should be both.

[Angus]

I remember a certain company that happened to invent the compact disc stating quite authoratively that the vinyl record would be dead by 1992.

Here we are in 2006, and the vinyl record will outlast the CD.

Consider your source. Sure, digital is going to make inroads into many traditional film markets...but people will always keep using film.

The public *has* noticed the difference between the recent digitally-originated Star Wars movies and the beauty of material shot on film.

[gianni1]

I'm a teacher, I like to think a good one too, according to some of my students. Not this semester i'm afraid, my union's on strike! Hope you ain't in the UK and this guy's not a scab? Any way I think it depends on the character of the teacher, maybe they are, or are not intellectually arrogant. Is this "...professional cinematographer (who's been supervising us)..." a professional who loves teaching or is this a cinematographer the school hired for street credibility?

Teacher's can be open or narrow minded, how do you figure out which way yours is? Better not question the teacher if they are dictators, because your grade is determined by doing exactly what they say. However if it's not going to hurt your marks, question the teacher, they may be provoking you to be intellectual and creative about the art form and function. Can you prove them right or wrong? That's my approach to teaching.

You are working on a student shoot, are you taking the course or getting paid? A film crew member's duty is to shut up and do as defined by the producer/director. As student it's either to shut up and do as the teacher says to get a high grade, or alternatively question their concepts to personally discover the truth for yourself and inspire the instructors.

It could also be that the cinematographer is trying to keep you out of the business by deflating your ego. This would also be preventing you from learning the secrets of filmmaking by not using film. You would end up drifting into consumer culture of fashionable and disposable technology, that doesn't require the disciplines of thoughtfull planning or quality workmanship or materials. Just upload your consumer HD film into your cheap PC and make your DVD.... That's the Future!?

Gianni :twisted:

[audadvnc]

I remember a certain company that happened to invent the compact disc stating quite authoratively that the vinyl record would be dead by 1992.

Here we are in 2006, and the vinyl record will outlast the CD.

Consider your source.

John Pytlak recently posted the 50th anniversary celebration of the company announcement for the 2" video tape recorder which stated something similar about the death of film. The company, Ampex, is long gone, yet film is still here.

[VideoFred]

I'm a teacher

Gianni,

As a teacher, what do you think?
How do young man/woman think about real film vs digital?
If there is any future for film, it's up to them, right?

Fred.

[Mogzy]

There's a huge difference between what consumers and professionals think.

Consumers will go for the most convenient and cheapest.

Professionals go for the best and most developed.

Film technology is still advancing (why do you think Kodak and Fuji are investing in new film-stocks) and the vast majority of professional films are shot on film because it looks better.

The vast majority of consumers use video and DVD cameras because they are easy, re-usable and quick. Ideal for their purposes. Those few who care about the aesthetics over the convenience use film.

[VideoFred]

Well, then I hope "those few" are enough to keep the thing going

Fred.

[gianni1]

Mogzy's right... if you don't know better, the way for ordinary consumers to make films is with video. The language or aesthetic of film can be learned or taught via video. That's the easy way, but the craft is a speciality that requires extra effort and patience beyond ordinary consumer knowledge.

I've got a good ten, twenty or thirty years or more till I give up the ghost. I'm confident film will be around for that time. I'll roll my own if nobody else does!

Gianni

[hellesdonfilms]

One advantage film has over any electronic media IMHO is that it is future proof.

Whatever new technology comes along VHS,Betamax,U-MATIC,V2000,Video8, Hi-8,Mini-DV (i think you get where I am going with this) means production companies constantly have to invest in expensive new equipment and convert existing media. Product originated on film will be able to cope with any new standards that come along. For this reason alone I think any company / cinematographer who completely abandons film is being very shortsighted and limiting their chances of long and versatile career.

[sonickel]

Thanks everyone.

The cinematographer's not the teacher, but an industry professional, who's kindly been helping us with the logistics of shooting with this very expensive medium, for half of the first day. There's a second year student who's written, directed and is DOPing this shoot - I'm just a camera assistant, who's a first year student. Whether we agree with the supervising cinematographer or not makes no difference to our final mark.

What's really thrown me about the whole thing is:

He's been working in the industry for 20 years. He's been to AFTRS - the best film school in the country. He's worked overseas, and knows his cinematography inside out. All of us on set respected him immensely, and appreciated his expertise. And he wasn't an egotistical a*hole about it at all - unlike some DOP's.

But he was really down about film. In conversations with one of our teachers, they talked about the collapse of Agfa and Minolta, and noted how commercial photographers have overwhelmingly gone digital - as well as the consumer market. And how feature films are sure to go digital too, just like TV has....

I didn't get the impression it was done to discourage us from pursuing film, to protect his own place in the industry. But more like "these are the harsh facts of life, and this is the future".....

I have been spending quality time with my Bolex this evening, in any case.

[VideoFred]

One advantage film has over any electronic media IMHO is that it is future proof.

Sometimes...

But I have to admit:
This weekend, I transfered a 1958 R8 reel.
Mostly B/W.. begins to fade.. or not 100% exposed.

But in the middle of this reel: a few realy wonderful color scenes.
Like if it was yesterday... I could almost smell the grass and the hay..

Filmed 48 years ago.

Fred.

[MovieStuff]

Does anyone here really think that more film will be shot next year than this year and that the use of digital is in decline?

Roger

[mattias]

there's a very good reason to learn on film; the magic. digital is good for learning to direct actors and such but it takes a *really* long time to learn how to create fantastic images on dv. and since the learning process is supposed to be fun, well q.e.d.

/matt