Call for concrete suggestions re: super 8 society

[Mitch Perkins]

It seems many of us feel that general awareness of Super 8 and it's value is lacking, resulting in un-fulfilled potential of the format.
Pitirre has put forth an idea to form a body not a million miles away in design and purpose from something like the Dairy Farmer's Association, but for Super 8.
I suspect that many of the salaried people at the DFA are not in fact dairy farmers at all, but rather administrative types, with the top dog being from the dairy industry itself. This allows the farmers the time to farm.
Ditto for a film society. Administrative salaries could possibly come from businesses which stand to profit from a wider customer base, which in turn would hopefully be generated by the activities of the Society. There's a financial risk involved, but not the biggest one ever...
Alternatively, admin responsibilities could be rotated through a group of dedicated filmmakers, who could be nominally compensated for their time from a cash pool of member's fees. Starting small is okay, and almost always the norm anyway.

So, the big question is - how exactly would such a Society generate the wider awareness and customer base - how would it fill it's mandate?
Luckily, there are a gazillion such Org.'s in motion right now, so the blueprint is there.
I have not researched it yet, but just to get the ball rolling [it's called market research]

-who uses it currently? provide segmentation - loyal users, students etc
-what are the attitudes/perceptions toward S8 outside the above group?
-what is the competition?
-how could loyal digital users be lured away? [main purpose of Society]
-education of consumer about image quality, archival quality, availability, compatability w/NLE systems...ummm...

This is the age of the mass luxury market, the age of the "connoisseur" - if everbody owns a DV cam, there's a bunch of folks who want something else, something percieved as better, more knowledge-based. Gaining technical knowledge has cache, knowing "which wines", and why, etc...

Luckily, these are the exact people who have the money to shoot film - they just have to know it's there!
Advertising methods have been polished to a blinding sheen. There is no mystery - print, direct mail, TV, internet, theaters [rep cinemas], sponsorship [this is huge - and can be a tax write-off for non-profit or educational events], blogging, text messaging...even those taxi cab non-rotating wheel covers...

This thread adopts the point of view that such activities are possible and worthwhile. This is not a question up for debate, but rather a call for ideas in the spirit of what is possible. Who knows what might be accomplished with the right attitude...and some cash?

What would be hilarious is if not one single person replied!

Mitch

[reflex]

Pitirre has put forth an idea to form a body not a million miles away in design and purpose from something like the Dairy Farmer's Association, but for Super 8.

Hmm. The Dairy Farmers of Canada spend their money advertising milk/cheese on TV and aggressively lobbying the Canadian Dairy Commission to increase the minimum price of their products. In other words, it's all about making more money by artificially fixing prices. Not sure we'd want to go there. ;)

The problem with a Super 8 association is that most associations are formed by professional groups to further their aims. Since many of us are hobbyists or semi-starving indie filmmakers (despite what Kodak's surveys say), it's hard to define what would glue the association together.

I've put together a quick list of reasons to form an association:

1. Lobbying Kodak and Fuji
2. Educating users and championing the format (although this is done very effectively by two new magazines)
3. Organize meetings to share technical knowledge and talk film.
4. Advocating use of the format in advertising and mainstream media (TV, feature films)

I'd love to see what others come up with.

[twotoneska]

I guess awareness is the big thing you would have to promote before a society could be formed. So few people even understand that Super 8 is still alive at this point...

And Kodak would also have to be openly willing to have an amatuer base of people using this, and promote more reversal stocks, and perhaps manufacture low cost home developing equipment, and restart the contact print service. Kodak, or somebody, would have to start developing some new equipment (Brownie camera redux?)

Places like MySpace have film sections where you can post films. Maybe we could start small, like you said, post work there, and try and stoke peoples interest. Make it visual and informational, with blogs about home developing, proper exposure, FAQ's, etc. I know that is stuff that's covered here, but lets face it, if your trying to get someone interested, you need to have information available to them in a way that they don't have to post a question about it (i.e. a simple FAQ). Some of these guys (names won't be mentioned) are a little to quick to instantly criticize newbies, which has probably driven off more than a few people.

The big thing, like you mentioned, is going to be finding a way to woo people from mini DV. That's going to be hard when it costs anywhere between 10 and 20 dollars for one 2 and a half minute cartridge of film, and only 6 bucks for a mini DV tape. We have to make them understand that their dollar is well spent.

[studiocarter]

Let's make films about Super 8mm. I have a few old ones telling how film is great and how it was used in schools. Some new ones are long past due.
Count me in as a member. I was an art teacher turned animation teacher then filmmaker. We used Regular 8mm in class, some Super 8mm too. It was easier to get R8 equipment for many students. My web site will feature Super 8mm of this association if it gets going.
Like starting a club, we need a written set of objectives, a business plan, a statment of purpose, a vision, all the same thing. And we need a board of directors.
We can be anywhere and meet on line. It won't cost anything but bandwidth and if we keep to text it won't take much. We do need to have a meeting and a list of members to get things rolling. If we met here on this thread we would also need to copy it so there is a record, duplicated on our PCs all over the world somehow.
It would be best if eventually we had a domain and a web space we could have administrative access to or to submit reports to. At least let's start with a name.
What is this association called? S8S Super 8 Society?
Michael Carter, Pittsburgh

[studiocarter]

Super 8 Society seeks secretary / editor to compile a list of members and notes made from this thread. Applicants apply here with a reply. Would all members please click on the 'Notify me when a reply is posted' box below? The secrrtary must have a printer so a hard copy may be compiled.

Michael Carter, Pittsburgh

[studiocarter]

viewtopic.php?p=127759#127759

Film? FILM?!

[studiocarter]

viewtopic.php?p=127759#127759

Film? FILM?!


viewtopic.php?t=13575&start=60

Notes. Minutes of last meeting. Vote on something.

I even did start a club in my school, McKeesport High School; I also wrote a grant and got funding for making animated movies, and got written up in the local news paper....

This could work if you work it.

[flatwood]

Well, I dont make much of a member of anything but I'll put up the dough to get a website off the ground. Ive got a friend and former studio client who programs and hosts some great websites. I bet we could get her to do it, for a fee of course, but Ill cover that. I cant remember her url off the top but she does this site, http://gypsycarns.com for one of my partners - you can click a link off that site to see her work and she has the interactive thing going. The company is rock-n-roll designs or something like that and I'd help with that if it comes to it.

[film_idaho]

I'm in. 8)

Alex

Lobbying Kodak :badgrin:

[Mitch Perkins]

The problem with a Super 8 association is that most associations are formed by professional groups to further their aims.

I think it would be best to approach it this way - from a money-model POV. In the end, the home projection guy still benefits if product is even a little easier to come by. I might be crazy, but ISTMT prices could even drop if there is sufficient increase in overall usage/consumption/competition.

Since many of us are hobbyists or semi-starving indie filmmakers (despite what Kodak's surveys say), it's hard to define what would glue the association together.

The belief that S8 has real-world value and applications, and the desire to spread the word, might stick.
Could the S8S provide indie filmmalers with a form of support that's currently not available/in short supply? Money's the obvious thing, but from what I've read, there *are* grants, but promoting the film once it's made seems a struggle. Since S8S would theoretically already be involved in promotion, that might be an area to examine.

I've put together a quick list of reasons to form an association:

1. Lobbying Kodak and Fuji
2. Educating users and championing the format (although this is done very effectively by two new magazines)
3. Organize meetings to share technical knowledge and talk film.
4. Advocating use of the format in advertising and mainstream media (TV, feature films)

I'd love to see what others come up with.

Hopefully the current "players" would be on board from the outset, given that promotion of their product is mandate one.

I particularly like your #4.

Mitch

[Mitch Perkins]

I guess awareness is the big thing you would have to promote before a society could be formed. So few people even understand that Super 8 is still alive at this point...

I'm thinkin that the society would be formed to address precisely that lack of awareness you mention. It will be an up-hill battle at first, and maybe ultimately a losing one, but it seems worth trying...sometimes even if the original goal is not met, good things still result.

The big thing, like you mentioned, is going to be finding a way to woo people from mini DV. That's going to be hard when it costs anywhere between 10 and 20 dollars for one 2 and a half minute cartridge of film, and only 6 bucks for a mini DV tape. We have to make them understand that their dollar is well spent.

Agreed about the amatuer user base. I tend to focus on the professional worthiness of S8, but the home DV market is amatuer...and huge!
About the money, it's hard to hold this idea in mind, but folks actually *want* to spend their money on stuff. Fills the void and all that. Hobbyists in particular suffer wallet burn. I know this from shameful experience - slotcars, Super 8 gear, go-karts...
So we have two distinct markets to target. Not a new concept...~:?)

Mitch

[Mitch Perkins]

Let's make films about Super 8mm. I have a few old ones telling how film is great and how it was used in schools. Some new ones are long past due.
Count me in as a member. I was an art teacher turned animation teacher then filmmaker. We used Regular 8mm in class, some Super 8mm too. It was easier to get R8 equipment for many students. My web site will feature Super 8mm of this association if it gets going.
Like starting a club, we need a written set of objectives, a business plan, a statment of purpose, a vision, all the same thing. And we need a board of directors.
We can be anywhere and meet on line. It won't cost anything but bandwidth and if we keep to text it won't take much. We do need to have a meeting and a list of members to get things rolling. If we met here on this thread we would also need to copy it so there is a record, duplicated on our PCs all over the world somehow.
It would be best if eventually we had a domain and a web space we could have administrative access to or to submit reports to. At least let's start with a name.
What is this association called? S8S Super 8 Society?
Michael Carter, Pittsburgh

You seem a whirlwind of energy and ideas. I'd say appoint yourself to any position - they're all currently available. ~:?)

Pitirre's idea though, so depending on who's willing to spend a bit of time...

We'll not do better than Flatwood's S8S idea. The T-shirt idea might seem trivial, and the ability to say, "I belong to S8S", but a *really wicked* T-shirt, and the conversation piece it would be, are nothing to sneeze at.

If some of the businesses here would throw an image up on their website, [ours is up in the next day or two, and I can guarantee a spot], that's a lot of potential shirt sales, with the cash going straight to the promotion of S8. First avenue of promotion should be the biggest bang for the buck. Anyone know what that is?

Your post is chalk-full of stuff, and I'm getting sleepy, but the written set of objectives first order of business, as you say. If the thread continues, we should be able to cull those objectives from it.

Mitch

[Mitch Perkins]

Well, I dont make much of a member of anything but I'll put up the dough to get a website off the ground. Ive got a friend and former studio client who programs and hosts some great websites. I bet we could get her to do it, for a fee of course, but Ill cover that. I cant remember her url off the top but she does this site, http://gypsycarns.com for one of my partners - you can click a link off that site to see her work and she has the interactive thing going. The company is rock-n-roll designs or something like that and I'd help with that if it comes to it.

Faaantaaastic! I'd say go for it - it's gotta be worth at least a try.

Are you still up for the T-shirt thing? If nothing else comes of it, they'll be souveniers of the last valiant effort of something beautiful.

Realising this might be a pipe dream, but if we can just keep some of the momentum here going...

Mitch

[Evan Kubota]

I'd buy a shirt if it was funny and didn't emphasize treehouses too much ;)

[Angus]

Hmm. The Dairy Farmers of Canada spend their money advertising milk/cheese on TV and aggressively lobbying the Canadian Dairy Commission to increase the minimum price of their products.

I realise this is OT but I have often wondered why Canadian cheddar is significantly cheaper in the UK than in the northwest USA - which is within driving distance of parts of Canada!

1. Lobbying Kodak and Fuji
2. Educating users and championing the format (although this is done very effectively by two new magazines)

Right...now we begin to get somewhere. If super 8 users had a (more or less) collective voice, lobbying Kodak might be more fruitful.

The problem I see here is the difference between the two groups using super 8...namely the home hobbyists and the (semi) pro shooters. Not a problem tht necessarily has to kill off any association but worth thinking about. Would the association champion one group, or try to work for both?

Any association needs to educate non-users as to the fact that super 8 is in some ways superior to the video formats, and that it still exists!
Which is where...

4. Advocating use of the format in advertising and mainstream media (TV, feature films)

comes in. A TV advert would be horrifically expensive to screen on any meaningful mainstream channel and timeslot...but perhaps a strategically chosen advert could be useful. It could certainly illustrate how super 8 is generally used today....ie for TV work.