BW Reversal Processing Query

[phildil]

Folks

A quick processing query - I was recently doing a test run processing some Svema BW Super 8 in a spiral tank, using the Kodak reversal chemistry kit, and the film came out almost completely clear, with only faint images. I was distracted during the processing by some family business, however, and I'm pretty sure I goofed up one the timing of the steps of the chemistry, and this caused this duff result - but which step might it be ? Too long in the reversal bleach? Or in one of the developers?

any ideas?
best.
phil

p.s. Lucky I was only doing a test!

[christoph]

if you put it in in it the right order it is most likely way too short in 2nd developer.
++ christoph ++

[mathis]

Or simply overexposed while shooting. Or outdated film.

[John_Pytlak]

On a camera reversal film, the unexposed edges should be D-Max (nearly opaque), REGARDLESS of exposure. I suspect the 2nd developer time was much too short, or some of the chemistry was improper.

[mathis]

I see, right. I had this once with outdated K40.

[phildil]

hi all,
thanks for the suggestions.
yes - the perf edge of the film (where it has been sitting in the spiral) is black, as one would expect. the rest of the film, though, is clear - and there are only faint images on the picture area.

I'm using the t-max kit, mixed up as per the instructions, following the times advised.

does this still sound like not enough time in the 2nd developer? i was thinking that maybe i'd cooked the film by leaving it in the bleach too long - am i wrong there?

best.
phil

[christoph]

yes - the perf edge of the film (where it has been sitting in the spiral) is black, as one would expect. the rest of the film, though, is clear - and there are only faint images on the picture area.
[....]
does this still sound like not enough time in the 2nd developer?

do you have also a thin black edge on the other side of the perforation?
if so that would indicate massive overexposure (and or overdevelopment in the first dev), not very likely with an old outdated low asa film. (and even then the resulting image would be bright, but quite contrasty)

i was thinking that maybe i'd cooked the film by leaving it in the bleach too long - am i wrong there?

it's nearly impossible to bleach too long, but there have been reports (cortez?) of the t-max bleach possibly damaging the emulsion of some films. (permanganate bleach is more prone to swelling, that's wy plus-x and tri-x have been reformulated a while back)

posting a scan or photo could help to track things down, cos it's hard to tell without seeing it.
++ christoph ++

ps. you could do a simple test...
process a 10cm piece of completely unexposed film in your chemistry, then one which has been completely exposed to light. the first one should be completely black, the second clear.

[phildil]

thanks v much for this info - most useful to know about the bleach step prob not being at fault!

sadly i have binned the film but i can tell you that only the perf side was black, slightly unevenly, as you would expect where it has been seated in the spiral away from the chemical. the rest of the film area over to the other edge was clear. some faint images appeared on the picture area.

i discounted the chance of the film being exposed to light - in the tank for example - i thought then the WHOLE film would be clear - including the perfs ... ???

and yes the film is outdated - this old stock is sold v cheap here in london - although i have had good results before when sending it to a lab, this is my first attempt at home reversal processing (i've done 35mm neg before).

tia
phil

[John_Pytlak]

If the unexposed edges of the film were nearly opaque, yet the image area was completely clear, I suspect that you severely overexposed the film. Are there any opaque framelines between each frame?

[phildil]

hi, no only one edge was black - the edge with the perfs (see above). the rest of the film area was completely clear. no lines between frames; no black line along the other edge of the film.
best. phil

[ccortez]

[quote="christoph

i was thinking that maybe i'd cooked the film by leaving it in the bleach too long - am i wrong there?

it's nearly impossible to bleach too long, but there have been reports (cortez?) of the t-max bleach possibly damaging the emulsion of some films. (permanganate bleach is more prone to swelling, that's wy plus-x and tri-x have been reformulated a while back)[/quote]

yeah, i've had results as he describes with the t-max kit, and i do believe the bleach to be the culprit in many of my wayward experiments.

it should be nearly impossible to bleach too long, but the t-max is dangerous. if you want to play around with that kit, you should cut up some test strips and experiment with the bleach to see how long before the emulsion starts melting off. i would get to the end of the reversal process and have to be careful not to wipe the emulsion right off the film by touching it or letting it touch itself during trying. it ain't supposed to be that way...