Wanted knowledge about 16mm cameras.

[Nigel]

If all you want is a camera that seems to hold up and that you can walk the streets with then I would suggest the smallest and lightest thig you can find.

How much do you want to spend??

Good Luck

[odyssic]

I'd say bolex too. I just look at mine and I'm inspired to shoot. I've brought it to a few different countries and it is nice to have the wind option so you don't have to worry about power. The relatively short run time in a single wind seems short but in most flims 28 seconds is a very long time. It is hard to do a shot that long that sustains interest. And of course for longer shots you can use a motor.

Also, the reflex viewing on the later ones (10X and over) works well for me. Switars are great too, and relatively inexpensive in terms of "pro" quality lenses. I'm not sure you can get a RX 5 with switars for under $1000, or an SB with Switar zoom. Anyway, I'd certainly recommend a zoom for documentary situations. I've never gotten the hang of changing primes on the fly.

Just get what you can afford and start shooting with it. In no time you'll start to figure out what you need and what you don't.

Steven

[oskar]

Well I´m not sure what I´m looking for. I have used a Arriflex 16SR when I was studying in Stockholm, Sweden - and I really loved that one, but I know in which price-range that is so no more about that.

I Why I want a electrical-driven camera is because I´m going to do interviews and you can´t stop a interview every 28 serconds. I know that the camera have to be synced and blimped to be optimized for this kind of use - but I´ll manage it, somehow. I know I can blimp the camera and the sync-problem is something I´ll just live with. Does this sound wierd? It might - but I´m a poor student and I don´t have too much money to spend on the camera.

So at the moment the Canon Scoopic sounds really interesting, it´s compact and rugged and it´s electrically driven. The big minus is that there is no magazines for it? Right? Does somebody know how many meters film one can load into the Canon Scoopic? How many minutes?

Next I´ll check out Bolex-cameras. After that I´ll be back with more questions...

[Evan Kubota]

The Scoopic MS (and M?) can take CP magazines but the adapter is fairly expensive ($250 for one that's been cycling on eBay). None of these are good choices for shooting interviews... way too loud. Look for a CP16 or an Eclair.

[audadvnc]

I'm a poor student .... I´m going to do interviews

Oh, interviews. I wouldn't recommend film for that. Long takes, lots of exposed film & money going down the toilet. Get a nice video camera & a Kinoflo light kit. Maybe consider a mixed format project; film for your pretty cinematic stuff and video (or maybe just audio & MOS film) for the long-winded interview sessions. What documentarists have traditionally done is record audio throughout an interview and shoot short takes of film only during dramatic high points.

If you just gotta do sync film, CP16/Aaton/ArriSR type crystal sync cameras are your only valid choices. 400' film load = about 11 minutes.

[Janne]

Does somebody know how many meters film one can load into the Canon Scoopic? How many minutes?

30 m
2 min 44 sec

[jaxshooter]

Surprised nobody has mentioned the Beaulieu R-16, which seems like a good choice give your usage description. You can find them relatively cheap on ebay and Bjorn Andersson still services these cameras for reasonable prices.

I also use a non-reflex Bolex H-16 as a backup and when I need battery-less ops.

I mentioned the Beaulieu R16.It was my main workhorse camera from 1979 to 1993 (although by about 1986,I was shooting video almost exclusively).I had a love/hate relationship with it.Registration was rock steady so it made an outstanding animation camera,rivalling the Mitchell I used to use when I worked at a film lab.

The downside was,it was a fiddly bastard to load,don't know if it was just mine or something particular with Beaulieus but you could close the gate and sometimes the pressure plate wouldn't seat and you would get fuzzy film that wasn't seated properly.I learned to carry a toothpick around and look at the plate after I closed the gate to see if the silver pressure plate was sticking out.If it was I gently pushed it in and solved the problem.The bad side of that was ,it was time consuming and one of my main uses at the time was sports photography and I missed a few good plays farting around with the pressure plate.

Lip sync was good with the syncro pilot,it could hold sync well with a Uher or a Nagra for almost a whole 200 foot magazine.The downside was,it was difficult to silence as it put out an annoying high pitched whine which I found to be harder to silence than the low pitched grumble of a Bolex or Arri S or Arri M.

[oskar]

Hey again!

Sorry for the typos in the last reply...here´s a few more!

Ok, maybe you guys are right, maybe I would be better off with a
Bolex or a Beaulieu. I´ve been photographing for 6 years with a Olympus OM2 from the early 80´s - so I understand how a moviecamera works, and that´s why it would be better to have a manual camera. Not a automatic where you can´t change lenses.

Somebody asked how much I´m willing to spend on this camera and to be honest with you...I´d say no more than 300€ (=about 350USD). I´ve checked out on ebay and I think I could get a Beaulieu R-16 or a Bolex H-16 (but don´t know which one..).

If we start off with the Beaulie R-16.
Pros and cons? Has a high pitched sound that can make you crazy if
you´re trying to pick up wildsound? And the loading is not too easy?

Is the bayonett a working solution? I think I ´d want to change the bayonett to one lens. Can you do that on every model? What kind of different models is there of the R-16?

Then the Bolex.
Pros and cons? I really like the H-16 EBM and H-16-M-5. Didn´t find them on ebay. Does somebody know how expensive they are? Out of my student price-range?
I really want a camera that has electrical motor aswell. Ideas?

I´m grateful for all kinds of ansvers and thoughts on these cameras....

[jaxshooter]

[quote="oskar"]Hey again!


If we start off with the Beaulie R-16.
Pros and cons? Has a high pitched sound that can make you crazy if
you´re trying to pick up wildsound? And the loading is not too easy?

Is the bayonett a working solution? I think I ´d want to change the bayonett to one lens. Can you do that on every model? What kind of different models is there of the R-16?
********************************

The Beaulieu has C mount (screw in).The advantage is that there are alot of good C mount lenses out there.The disadvantage is a C mount takes more time to change and isn't as stable as a bayonet type mount.

The Bolex Rex (reflex cameras)have Rex mount.Identical to C mount except that they are "miscalibrated" to allow for the extra room the Bolex prism has.A standard C mount wider than 50 mm will not focus sharply on a Rex mount and a Rex mount won't focus sharp on a C mount camera.

The Bolex SMB,EBM,EL and Bolex Pro have Bolex Bayonet mounts.

There was a Beaulieu News 16 that came out in the early 70's that used a coaxial 200 foot magazine was crystal synced and capable of shooting mag striped sound film.I think it had a bayonet style mount,but memory fails me on this.You don't see too many of them around as well as the Bolex Pro which was similar in design to the Beaulieu News 16,but was heavier and used a 400 foot coaxial magazine.

[tlatosmd]

Sorry for the typos in the last reply...here´s a few more!

I'd quote that in my sig if there'd be enough space available! :lol:

[Herb Montes]

Hey again!

Then the Bolex.
Pros and cons? I really like the H-16 EBM and H-16-M-5. Didn´t find them on ebay. Does somebody know how expensive they are? Out of my student price-range?
I really want a camera that has electrical motor aswell. Ideas?

I´m grateful for all kinds of ansvers and thoughts on these cameras....

I got an M5 off eBay a couple of years ago for $500. It came with a Pan Cinor zoom with the reflex finder and an MC-17 motor plus power supply. I eventually replaced the motor with an EM model and got a 400' magazine with take-up motor for an extra $300. So this outfit totals $800. I wouldn't shoot sync sound with it since its noisy especially with the magazine.

The cheapest sync sound camera I have seen at one time was a Frezzolini for around $1,500. You can come across some modified Auricons for under $1,000. Then again you might want to look into a 16mm Kinor. They run from $500 to $,1500. Normally comes crystal synced to 25 fps but it can be modified. Check out Commiecam.com to find out more.

http://www.commiecam.com/

[clivetobin]

Then again you might want to look into a 16mm Kinor. They run from $500 to $,1500. Normally comes crystal synced to 25 fps but it can be modified. .../

Wrong. This is a governor controlled 25 FPS and NOT crystal. It has a very odd 50 Hz pilot output connector.

We used to offer the modification of making them 24-25-30 FPS crystal.

[Herb Montes]

Then again you might want to look into a 16mm Kinor. They run from $500 to $,1500. Normally comes crystal synced to 25 fps but it can be modified. .../

Wrong. This is a governor controlled 25 FPS and NOT crystal. It has a very odd 50 Hz pilot output connector.

We used to offer the modification of making them 24-25-30 FPS crystal.

Then the info I got from the Commiecam site could be wrong. Still the Kinor is much quieter than some of the other cameras suggested here.

[cineandy]

Hi, if you still fancy the scoopic, go for the later black model, 16m or 16ms, my late 16ms was quieter than a bolex, beaulieu and arri 16st. The standard grey scoopic was very noisy. Beaulieu R16 is a good choice, no bolt on electric motors like the bolex. Also Bjorn does a great job on servicing them, something i recommend on any 16mm camera before you start shooting.

[fritzcarraldo]

I've used some 16mm cameras, and, until today i find the Beaulieu one of the best and easy to use, i also like the K-3 because of it's optical system, one of the most interesting, capable of registring one of the most clean images i've ever seen in common 16mm cameras,

I would go for the beaulieu R-16