OT:Beatles vs History vs The Rest vs Stones - Saving A Threa

[tlatosmd]

However, their apprenticeship in hamburg was rough and creative. one important factor for dveloping their unique playing stylie of "voicing" was that they played such a H-U-G-E variety of other than rock/pop music.

they did 8 hour stints every night and do you think there was enough significant rock/pop songs (with a "drive") around then to keep it going for 8 hour an a run?
(they found som drugs circulationg the reperbahn society - the Prelleys" even then that could help them endure the 8 hour stints)

As much as I know, they didn't only play 8 hours per gig, which was why they especially needed those preludin pills. They ate, slept, and, well, did anything else you have to do during such periods of time on stage. And they had to tune their instruments at an ambience or musical noise level you couldn't hear anything, so they had to actually *feel* by vibrations whether they were tuning them right.

Clapton once commented og GHs playing: He allways had to make things that complex. he couldnt stick with this-that-this-this-that cords.
He always had to do that, that, thism that, this, this that, this, that, that, that, those it n thiss n dis n that within the same beats/bars.

Manfred Mann has said the same, they wrote much more complicatedly than most other musicians such as Bob Dylan so he couldn't just take their chords and fill them up because they were massively packed as they were already.

more in depth analysis of Bealtes songs are analyzed in Total Guitar Nov 2001: "The Roots Of The Beatles Songwriting Secrets Revealed - if you are interested to dive in.

"The Betales didnt just
come out of nowehwere:
their music was founded on
a welath of influences, from
doo woop to show tunes..

chapters:
The Relative Minor Vamps
The Doo Wop Cycles
The Magical Mediant
The Cycle of Fiths
The Imperfect Bridge Cadence
The pop-Rock Lydian II
The Deceptive Cadence
The Aeolian (or ´Modal) Cadence
The Parallell Minor/Major Switch
The Minor Plagal Plan
The Borrowed bIII
The Borrowed bIV
The Dominant Rock ´Primer
The Double ´Pagal´ Cadence
The Aeolian Rock Decent
The Phrygian Cadence
The Truck Driver´s Modulation
The Vm "Suprising Place" Bridge Shift
The ´Pretty Woman´key Shift
The Augumented 6th´Tonal Tease

I'd be interested in more details about that.

(sidenote - when lennon recorded in NY studios in the 70s he found that the studio muscians could not play reggae - he needed some and he had to tech them. The beatles recorded that in form of Ska in 1965 if i remember correctly - cant remember the song but can find.

Wasn't Ob-la-di, ob-la-da actually a parody of Reggae music?

[S8 Booster]

However, their apprenticeship in hamburg was rough and creative. one important factor for dveloping their unique playing stylie of "voicing" was that they played such a H-U-G-E variety of other than rock/pop music.

they did 8 hour stints every night and do you think there was enough significant rock/pop songs (with a "drive") around then to keep it going for 8 hour an a run?
(they found som drugs circulationg the reperbahn society - the Prelleys" even then that could help them endure the 8 hour stints)

As much as I know, they didn't only play 8 hours per gig, which was why they especially needed those preludin pills. They ate, slept, and, well, did anything else you have to do during such periods of time on stage. And they had to tune their instruments at an ambience or musical noise level you couldn't hear anything, so they had to actually *feel* by vibrations whether they were tuning them right.

yeah - that is what ive read for ages too and should be correct. too much to remember and too much to write - timeconsuming so i can get it all. there is so much more you know.

Clapton once commented og GHs playing: He always had to make things that complex. he couldnt stick with this-that-this-this-that cords.
He always had to do that, that, thism that, this, this that, this, that, that, that, those it n thiss n dis n that within the same beats/bars.

Manfred Mann has said the same, they wrote much more complicatedly than most other musicians such as Bob Dylan so he couldn't just take their chords and fill them up because they were massively packed as they were already.

could well be - i dont know everythig about them - not even Mark Levison does i think ;-) but could well be. I think however, that they were into complex voicing n chords early in the hamburg time to be "different" and possibly match their vocal capacities. they performed some of their own material already then like "i saw her standing there" and a few others which were distinct beatles and different form anything elese around at the time.

more in depth analysis of Bealtes songs are analyzed in Total Guitar Nov 2001: "The Roots Of The Beatles Songwriting Secrets Revealed - if you are interested to dive in.

"The Betales didnt just
come out of nowehwere:
their music was founded on
a wealth of influences, from
doo woop to show tunes..

chapters:
The Relative Minor Vamps
The Doo Wop Cycles
The Magical Mediant
The Cycle of Fiths
The Imperfect Bridge Cadence
The pop-Rock Lydian II
The Deceptive Cadence
The Aeolian (or ´Modal) Cadence
The Parallell Minor/Major Switch
The Minor Plagal Plan
The Borrowed bIII
The Borrowed bIV
The Dominant Rock ´Primer
The Double ´Pagal´ Cadence
The Aeolian Rock Decent
The Phrygian Cadence
The Truck Driver´s Modulation
The Vm "Suprising Place" Bridge Shift
The ´Pretty Woman´key Shift
The Augumented 6th´Tonal Tease

I'd be interested in more details about that.

this is really awesome and there are so much in it . the title/subtitles for each chapter goes like:

(1) The relative Minor Vamps:
formulae: (chords listed)
influencual source
classic beatles usage: (songs listed)

Subchap1: What the Hell Is This?
Subchap2: Whats So Good About It?
Subchap3: Other Examples

with complete chord tables.

x20

its really heavy - i will scan the pages and mail them to you. Ill PM you when they are avail.

s8hoot

[VideoFred]

]

(sidenote - when lennon recorded in NY studios in the 70s he found that the studio muscians could not play reggae - he needed some and he had to tech them. The beatles recorded that in form of Ska in 1965 if i remember correctly - cant remember the song but can find.

Wasn't Ob-la-di, ob-la-da actually a parody of Reggae music?

The Ska was "you know my name" but not on the original version.
It's on the Anthology version. It was the B-side of a single, can not remember witch one :oops: It must have been 1967.

And yes, Ob-la-di was the reggea thing.(1968)
while "Gotta get you into my life" was soul inspired(1966-Revolver)

Fred.

[tlatosmd]

Gee, thanks.

[VideoFred]

Andreas, forgive us for being so off topic...
But this thread is so much fun....
History of popular music is so interesting to discuss.

However, I understand, I never do this again in any other thread, I promise! :oops:


Here we go (again):

Manfred Manns bass player, Klaus Voorman, was a good friend of the Beatles and others in those days.

He designed the cover of Revolver, too.

Original, Manfred Mann was a jazz group. Very good musicians.
I like them a lot.

Fred.

[S8 Booster]

i watched them live somtimes in the 70s.. its one of those things that forever makes current musix sux.

"Mighty Quinn"

s8hoot

[VideoFred]

Here's a link between Super-8 and pop music:
http://juke-box.dk/gert-super-8-mm.htm

There must be much more to find out there!

Fred.

[S8 Booster]

there are truckloads.

mind you that the 60s was probably the last decade that ecerything of importance outside studios and TV sports was ONLY SHOT ON FILM.

there was a lot of private beatles (S8)8mm films sometime ago - was in/ on the DVD box or a separate DVD - dont remember and cant check since someone borrowed my DVD box.

anyhways, guess a lot was recorded on 8 and 16mm those days.
wasnt Woodstock shot on 16mm?

s8hoot

[tlatosmd]

The Ska was "you know my name" but not on the original version.
It's on the Anthology version. It was the B-side of a single, can not remember witch one :oops: It must have been 1967.

As much as I know, it wasn't released prior to the 70s when a shorter edit appeared on the B side of a Plastic Ono Band single.

while "Gotta get you into my life" was soul inspired(1966-Revolver)

I've read it to be closer to Motown, while anytime I hear it, I've gotta think of some big game show, just like with Tell me why from the A hard day's night soundtrack.

i watched them live somtimes in the 70s.. its one of those things that forever makes current musix sux.

"Mighty Quinn"

I've seen them live on stage here in Hamburg at least three times before. My father has all their records on vinyl from their 1969 debut up to Angel Station, and I've put them all to CD, re-mastering them.

BTW, The Beatles knew Klaus back from their Hamburg days, Klaus was one of the Exis art students (kinda like German mods) like Astrid. That film Backbeat claims that he'd been wearing a moptop haircut all the time in Hamburg long before the Fab Four came to play there, but that's not true.

Actually, between two Hamburg gigs or visits, John and Paul hitch-hiked down to France, running into Astrid in Klaus in Paris by coincidence (while having known them from Hamburg before). It was then when they saw Klaus sporting that hair-style, and he had it since seeing a film there in France taking place in ancient Greece, and those hair-cuts in the film had been copied from ancient vase paintings.

John and Paul immediately wanted to have that haircut, so all four of them (John, Paul, Klaus, and Astrid) went to a Paris hair-dresser, and John and Paul demanded to get the same hair-style as Klaus had.

Anyway, Paul does mention him filming 8mm in the 60s, but he also speaks of double-exposing on purpose frequently, so he must've been shooting either R8 or Single8. From what I can tell from the original cameras visible in the Anthology, it seems to be R8.

[timdrage]

The beatles recorded that in form of Ska in 1965 if i remember correctly

The Beatles invented Ska!?! Wow, I like them even less now! :lol: :lol:

[S8 Booster]

The beatles recorded that in form of Ska in 1965 if i remember correctly

The Beatles invented Ska!?! Wow, I like them even less now! :lol: :lol:

free to dislike but i didnt say that.

they were capable of plaiyng ska even then but the music style originated from somewhere utside europe as far as i reminice and wasnt "new" at the time.

s8hhot

[Carlos 8mm]

]


The Ska was "you know my name" but not on the original version.
It's on the Anthology version. It was the B-side of a single, can not remember witch one :oops: It must have been 1967.

As much as I know, it wasn't released prior to the 70s when a shorter edit appeared on the B side of a Plastic Ono Band single.

"You know my name" was the B-side of "Let it Be" single. released in march(?) 1970.

"You know my name" was edited from different tapes recorded in Abbey Road in 1967 by The Beatles & Brian Jones, playing his saxophone. in 1969 these tapes were re-discovered and John & Paul added their voices, creating that strange pastiche.

tlatosmd wrote:

Actually, between two Hamburg gigs or visits, John and Paul hitch-hiked down to France, running into Astrid in Klaus in Paris by coincidence (while having known them from Hamburg before). It was then when they saw Klaus sporting that hair-style, and he had it since seeing a film there in France taking place in ancient Greece, and those hair-cuts in the film had been copied from ancient vase paintings.

John and Paul immediately wanted to have that haircut, so all four of them (John, Paul, Klaus, and Astrid) went to a Paris hair-dresser, and John and Paul demanded to get the same hair-style as Klaus had.

As far as I know, The Beatles/ Astrid Kirchner/ Klaus Voorman hair-style, was inspired in a hair-cut used by top-class German youngmen and specially young cadets of the German Imperial Army in the late 1800s - early 1900s.

Recently I saw a German film from the ´60s about young German cadets in the early 1900s. The hair-cut was the same that The Beatles adopted in late 1961 (except Pete Best) !


Edit : Stu Sutcliffe was the first Beatle who wear that hair cut. (In fact, it was Astrid who cuts Stuart´s hair). the other Beatles with their Elvis black quiff-hair stile, made fun of Stu´s new haircut, since they considered it "effeminate"...

[S8 Booster]

puhhh.. this is taking off but:

You Know My Name - Look Up the Number.

A bizarre recording, issued on March 6 1970 as the B-side of Let It Be but which already spanned 34 months. It was recorded, without vocals, in five sperate parts at Abbey Road on 17 May, 7 june, and 8 June 1967 and was the complied into one all encompassing master take on 9 June 1967. It then sat on a shelf until 30 April 1969, when John and Paul added vocals and, aided by their assistant Mal Evans, sound effects. by this time the song lasted more than six minutes though despite making 3 different mono remixes it was again left unissued. On 26 November 1969 John lennonedited down the best mix to four minutes for release as a single by the Plastic ono Band. That single never appeared and then, a little over 3 months later, the song finally cropped up as this Beatles B-side. A curious burlesque comedy number conceieved by John, it also features Brian Jones of the Rolling Stones playing saxophone. (His contribution was taped on 8 June 1967) Compilation and Notes by MARK LEWISOHN

puhh..


s8hoot

[tlatosmd]

Typical haircut in ther Germany Imperial army was much shorter, closer to that typical 50s US army haircut. Just look at Hindenburg and Ludendorff.

[timdrage]

free to dislike but i didnt say that.

I know, was joking on both counts, don't worry! (i actually don't really dislike the Beatles... tho am not keen on Ska!)