OT:Beatles vs History vs The Rest vs Stones - Saving A Threa

[Angus]

Synchronicity:

Fred.

I thought you were going to talk about The Police there!

Colin Bluntstone is an underrated artist if you ask me. Last time I checked he was signed to a small British label "mystic records" to do solo albums...but that was probably six years ago.

[S8 Booster]

Stax/Atlantic soul

Wilson Picket
Otis Redding
Sam & Dave
Aretha Franklin etc..

Booker T and the MG's where the house musicians on all these fine records.

Another fine band: Alan Parsons Project, with Colin Bluntstone (Zombies) very often as lead singer.

Synchronicity: I hear Otis Redding on my radio right now

Fred.

actually this tv series i running on tv now:

Soul Deep

in this episode the following artists was presented:

n the summer of 1967, Otis Redding performed in front of a 200,000-strong, mainly white, crowd at the Monterey Pop Festival.

Five years after walking into Stax Records studio in Memphis as an unknown singer, he was now breaking into the mass white market and seducing its counter culture without diluting his sound.

Soul Deep follows both Redding's rise, as he became the embodiment of Sixties soul music, and that of Stax Records as it crossed the racial divide at a time of segregation.

Founded by two white southerners - brother and sister Jim Stewart and Estelle Axton - black and white musicians came together at Stax to create gritty, passionate soul.

"Stax Records was an oddity - it was like an oasis in the desert. Both black and white musicians became friends because of what they did. It was wonderful. But right outside those doors it stopped," comments Stax musician Marvell Thomas.

Redding's triumphs at Stax encouraged other labels to look for this new-style raw talent. The local Gold Wax label signed an incredible talent - James Carr.

One of his rare, previously unseen television performances features in Soul Deep. Classics include Love Attack and At The Dark End Of The Street.

"The roar, the depth of soul that we hear when James opens his mouth is the voice of the south. It's that depth of pain and longing for something better," comments Wayne Jackson, Stax musician.

The sound of the south began to influence other labels. New York-based Atlantic Records' Jerry Wexler would bring his musicians south whenever they needed inspiration.

Wilson Pickett's huge hit In the Midnight Hour resulted from a night in Memphis' Lorraine Motel with Stax songwriter Steve Cropper and a bottle of "Jack".

After Wexler teamed performers Sam and Dave up with Stax writers Isaac Hayes and David Porter, classic hits included Soul Man and Hold On, I'm Comin'.

Wexler was soon alerted to another southern record company – Rick Hall's Fame Studio in sleepy Muscle Shoals - where Percy Sledge cut southern soul's first number one pop hit, When a Man Loves A Woman.

It was here that Wexler brought a new artist he had just signed – Aretha Franklin. "It was so evident to me that she was a blazing genius. She was so far ahead of the pack.

"She made a lot of beautiful records for Columbia but they were all over the place - they had no focus, no direction," explains Wexler.

Fame studio musician Dan Penn describes Franklin's dramatic entrance. "She sat down by the piano and played this unknown chord and the musicians were just like little bugs running for their instruments."

That day she recorded her number one hit I Never Loved A Man The Way I Loved You.

Her next monster hit was with Redding's Respect. Imbuing it with a new social relevance, it became an anthem and she an icon.

In 1968, in a strange twist of fate, Martin Luther King was murdered in the same Memphis motel where Pickett and Cropper penned In the Midnight Hour a few years before.

His death heralded the end of an extraordinary era of hope as black attitudes hardened. "The fraternalism between black musicians and white musicians seemed to suffer," explains Wexler.

A new black sound was on it way...

the other episode guides are avial linked back n forth

s8hoot

[S8 Booster]

my last post on the subjet for now but ive decided to reply in a limited way regarding the claim that they were no good muscians which of course was not true but this was one hype that surfaced in the 70s which ofcourse was generated by less successfull musicans/artists which did envy them - naturally.

for a start - there was a program abt Pete Best - made in 2004 shown on TV the other day which kind of did not bring up anything new but it sort of clarified details of interest:

the beatles were not regarded as good musicians pre-hamburg. other British groups even wanted them to return to england to not spoil the reputation of the British groups then playing in Hamburg.

However, their aprenticeship in hamburg was quick, rough and creative. one important factor for developing their unique playing style or "voicing" was that they played such a H-U-G-E variety of other than rock/pop music.

they did 8 hour stints every night and do you think there was enough significant rock/pop songs (with a "drive") around then to keep it going for 8 hour in a run? they usually started off a little "soft" in the early evening due to hangovers etc.
(they found some drugs circulating in the reperbahn society - the "Prelleys" even then, that could help them endure the 8 hour stints)

No Sir. they played everything popular at the time and to mention a few songs coincidentally taped at their last show there on Dec 31st 1962 as far as i remember.

Some of the songs they played at their last gig in Hamburg:
wasnt exactly all rockn roll standards if you know em -
1. I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Cry (Over You)
2. Roll over Beethoven
3. Hippy Hippy Shake
4. Sweet Little Sixteen
5. Lend Me Your Comb*
6. Your Feet's Too Big
7. Where Have You Been All My Life
8. Mr. Moonlight
9. Taste of Honey*
10. Besame Mucho* (songwriter died recently)
11. Till There Was You*
12. Kansas City/Hey-Hey-Hey-Hey!
13. Hallelujah, I Love Her So*
14. Nothin' Shakin' (But the Leaves on the Trees)
15. To Know Her Is to Love Her*
16. Little Queenie
17. Falling in Love Again*
18. Sheila*
19. Be-Bop-A-Lula
20. Red Sails in the Sunset*
21. Everybody's Trying to Be My Baby
22. Matchbox
23. Talkin' 'Bout You
24. Shimmy Shake
25. Long Tall Sally
26. I Remember You*
27. I saw Her Standing There
28. Twist And Shout
29. Reminicing*
30. Ask Me Why
31. Hully Gully (vocals by the club owner!)

now, back to the Best TV program - its all know from before but; when they/we came back from germany (even gradually on their previous returns from hamburg while Pete Best was still their drummer) they had gone through a total transformation and blew everyone away as live performers - even in Liverpool where the bands/audiences were familiar with them.

Lennon once said that their best performances was never recorded and the first gig they did after their "final" return to England - after the last concert in Germany was the their best ever. the totally deafening noise at their concerts later in Beatlemania 63-66 prevented them from hearing their own instruments and Ringo told on the Anthlogy DVD: I tried to hang on to the Beat and lip read the other guys to find out where the hell in the song we were. In their own view they deterioated as live performers in that period - 1964 to 1966. Lennon commented in the 70s: "our amplifiers was big as peanuts - we could not hear what we played". take into consideration that there was no foldback speakers/monitors in those days their performances are awesome. if they werent such a homogenous band they would probably not managed to do it at all. listen to the Hollywood Bowl performance 63-64 - it was performed and recorded under those circumstances - and get impressed.

One of their first TV recorded performances after they returned from Germany was in Sweden in oktober 1963 and is on the Ant. DVD - check it out - it R-O-C-K-S.

a tiny quote from George Martin at the back cover of the LP "The Beatles Live At the Hollywood Bowl" (1977):

"my youngest daughter Lucy, now nine years old, once asked about them, "you used to record them didn´t you daddy?". "were they as great as the Bay City Rollers?". "probably not", i replied. One Day she will find out. "

George Martin was tremendously important for "igniting" and supporting their early recording career. he is a highly educated and clever musician /composer - you name it - writing classic and all sorts of music and his awesome skills surely halp them on the way. Nevertheless they quite quickly took control over their creativity in the studio but George Martin was their supporting master in contributing the special requirements they wanted - classic arrangemets for one and a lot of other stuff as well. however, he seemed to be baffled by their creativity to the very end, and if anyone of you watched the TV program "The Making of Pepper" he brought up a couple of examples: the astonishing simplicity in the key chords of Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds" and the awesome beat changes in "Good Morning Good Morning" - he commented that Lennon probably hadnt an idea what was in it but nevertheless.

kind of brings me over to Ringo´s drumming often incorrectly critisised.
"Ringo is the best Rock´n Roll Drummer in the World" - not my words but John Lennon´s from the late 70s and ofcourse he is right. there is no other drummer with the catch timing of Ringo. Lennon knew that after playing with the "best" ones post Beatles.

what Ringo did was normally to play what the others wanted him to do. it was right for the band performance but did not always reveal his capacity as a drummer.

a few details that may enlighten your view: when they recorded Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane during the Pepper Sessions - those songs never appeared on the album - you may have noticed the heavy drumming that fades out the song. the full version of this is on the Anthology CDs. JL told Ringo to sort of copy a drum part from a record by another artist and implement that into the SFF. Ringo replied that "they are 2 dummers playing that part John?".. JL replied - "youll think of something."

Phil Collins recently commented on that part: you can take any drummer you know of today and ask them to play it and they wouldnt have an idea of what to do.

btw plain drum solos are boring like plain guitar solos.
combined with heavy percussion sections drum "solos" are good.
ill contribute with some when the server is back on ;-)


In the 90s George Harrison did a gig in Japan which was recorded. its available on CD. The backing group was Eric Clapton and his band.
Unfortunately they tried to do a couple of Harrisons Beatles Classics. They shouldnt have. if clearly differs men from boys - its really bad.

Clapton once commented on GHs playing: He always had to make things that complex. he couldnt stick with this-that-this-this-that cords.
He always had to do that, that, thism that, this, this that, this, that, that, that, those it n thiss n dis n that within the same beats/bars.

look at the cord changes and difficult chords he put in while playing and singing never looking at his guitar in the early days performances - youll get an idea.

John Lennon was considered one of if not the best rythm guitar player and was know for a "driving" rythm hand and insane chord changes as well.

quote from "Guitar Player" mag sep 1994:

"from In My Life to All You Need Is love to Imagine John Lennons songs documented life´s haunting uncertainty and struggles, its irony and absurdity and struggles and its brave possibilities. his grainy throaty voice was somehow pre-tuned to our own inner resonances and he had a driving rythm guitar hand"

in the same issue there are some in deep analysis of 3 of his less known Beatle songs (She Said She Said, Nowhere Man and Your Bird Can Sing) and the article ends with:

"if you are in the process of modelling someone elses creative endavour youre forced to suspend your pet modus operandi, leave the comfort zone and however briefly view the guitar from a fresh perspective. you know you are onto something when more than your hand muscles feel stretched."

more in depth analysis of Beatles songs are printed in Total Guitar Nov 2001: "The Roots Of The Beatles Songwriting Secrets Revealed" - if you are interested to dive in.

"The Betales didnt just
come out of nowhere:
their music was founded on
a wealth of influences, from
doo woop to show tunes..

chapters:
The Relative Minor Vamps
The Doo Wop Cycles
The Magical Mediant
The Cycle of Fifths
The Imperfect Bridge Cadence
The Pop-Rock Lydian II
The Deceptive Cadence
The Aeolian (or ´Modal´) Cadence
The Parallell Minor/Major Switch
The Minor Plagal Plan
The Borrowed bIII
The Borrowed bIV
The Dominant Rock ´Primer´
The Double ´Pagal´ Cadence
The Aeolian Rock Decent
The Phrygian Cadence
The Truck Driver´s Modulation
The Vm "Suprising Place" Bridge Shift
The ´Pretty Woman´Key Shift
The Augumented 6th´Tonal Tease


Also for reference in the same mag:

"Pet Sounds" THE SONGS THAT SHAPED THE GUITAR GREATS.

Paul MCNY comments on this article;

"I have always been suspicious of categories like pop or heavy metal - my musical taste range from Fred Astaire to Sex Pistols and everything in between, including Pink Floyd, Stevie Wonder and.. The Rolling Stones.

+

When i heard "pet sounds" i thought , this is the best album of all time - what the hell are we gonna do?

the result of this became Sgt Pepper.


which brings me to Paul McCartney:
In the Mag "Bass Player" August 1995 issue there is a in deep analysis of McCartenys Bass Playing capacity. You guys shold get a copy anyway.

There is a complete bass line from "Lovely Rita" (1967) printed in that mag along with analysis.

I just quote the 4 last lines or so:

"The tune ends with an odd breakdown section, roughly over an A chord, in which Paul plays a weird, offbeat, minor-key ostinato in 16th-notes, its really cool, even if it has nothing to doo with rest of the song. And the last note is most unusual indeed - there aren´t a lot of songs where the bass ends up on the 4th of the last cord! "Let us off the hook Paul!"

The last note is a hint to something Paul told earlier in the interview, he had found out that he could control the band through his bass playing. If he kept the a tone/key longer than the others expected they would be hooked up there too, turning their faces onto him kind of asking what the hell are you up to? - until Paul let go and they could follow. You can hear that in real life on one of the versions of "Get Back" in the let it be film - the best version ever - never released on CD unfortunately.

MCNY was voted the best bass player many years around late 60s - early 70s - well after he peaked as a bass player in his own opinion.

in sum, even if they hadnt been the best artists ever they are still the best band.

Quote McNy: "We were a great little band that could play just everything"

(sidenote - when lennon recorded in NY studios in the 70s he found that the studio muscians could not play reggae - he needed some and he had to teach them. The beatles recorded that in form of Ska in 1965 if i remember correctly - cant remember the song but can find.

Lennon: "We were just a band that made it very, very big. Thats all." (1969 Beatles Tapes LP)

One of the main reasons for their success must have been that they put their egoes aside for the benefit of the band and also incredible instrument handling and vocal performances.


In sports, sex and music timing is all.

That is what they did to perfection.


In January 1969 they did their last public appearance as a live performing band; The Famous Rooftop Concert - and id like to quote from the book "Shout":

They Played Like No Band Would Ever Play Again

in my view The Betales sounded much better live than in the studio and their studio records never matched the raw energy of their live performances - unlike by far most other bands then and now save Beach Boys for one.

Sorry for leaving this with the short version but it too much and too time consuming to go deep into.

one of the big challenges with beatles records is that the rythm/lead. instruments are typically buried deep into the mix so the complexity isnt easy to hear but it contributes to the total. i have never been to fond of that but McNy says: "that was the way we liked it" - but i know they got the bass and the bass drum more protrudent as they took over the mix. 64-65 or so.

If you listen to their records youll sense it anyway.

"All You Need Is Ears"

Enjoy

S 8) hoot

[Arislan]

What the heck is a slot car and why does Santo keep saying we collect them?

[S8 Booster]

unfinished business - have you ever seen Santo post a clip - ever?

s8hoot

[Arislan]

I haven't seen most people here post a clip, only a handful of the regulars. A slot car is an unfinished business? He keeps saying we "collect slotcars" and calls this forum slotcars.com

[VideoFred]

I haven't seen most people here post a clip, only a handful of the regulars. A slot car is an unfinished business? He keeps saying we "collect slotcars" and calls this forum slotcars.com

He's referring to Super 8 man and (maybe) me..
Slot cars are toys.. It's our hobby (amongst others)

But why do you bring him up, he's gone...

Now, about posting clips:
Many people are afraid to post something, here.
Comment can be... heavy.
If you post a sharp clip, It's to sharp.
If you post a less sharp clip, It's not sharp enough..
And so on.

But I don't mind, I keep on posting.
One day, I post the perfect clip right here, you'l see :lol:

Fred.

[Arislan]

But why do you bring him up, he's gone...

He said bad things about K40. That is annoying.

As for posting clips, I'd just ignore anything said by mattias or that other guy whose name I forget but always talks crap about other people's clips.

A slot car is something you make with an empty box of K40 film? Maybe two empty super 8 reels on each side...?

[VideoFred]

The Beatles

Booster, you win!
You're not a Beatles fan, your're a damn Beatles freak!
Just like my brother, hehe.
But he plays the songs on his guitar, too.

Again, good life performance of George Harrison songs:
Concert for George

Fred. (freak myself, but not that much :lol: )

[VideoFred]

A slot car is something you make with an empty box of K40 film? Maybe two empty super 8 reels on each side...?

You give me an idea, haha
Here's the real thing:
http://users.telenet.be/ho-slotcars/index.htm

Fred.

[Arislan]

I can't read lithuanian, Fred. @_@

But the slotcar-kodachrome connection fascinates me, still. It might work better than that Yo-yo made with old expired Ektachrome G cartridges.

[VideoFred]

I can't read lithuanian, Fred. @_@

Dutch, It's Dutch (Flemish)
You have missed the 'English' button on my site.

Fred.

[Arislan]

Ok, Dutch, I found an english link on the page and followed it to "types of chassis"...then i ran into:

"An ‘exploded view’ of the vibrator."

8O

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh~~ I knew it was sexual in nature.

[VideoFred]

"An ‘exploded view’ of the vibrator."

These toy cars where named 'vibrator' and the brand name was Aurora.
Try Google Aurora+vibrator and see what you get.

But I have a true On Topic link with slotcars and Super-8:
The german company Faller made a Super-8 film of the Faller slotcar system. A real collectors item, these days.

Look for the film here:
http://www.faller-ams.com/



Fred.

[S8 Booster]

my brothers cars were Fallers.

TNX

s8hoot