A Free Cinecap Substitute

[Film-0-Matic]

Hi Folks

I dont want to rob mr. Dodson of potential future
customers but there is already a tool out there
that does EXACTLY what Cinecap does and all for
FREE! Whats even more startling is that is a Microsoft
tool.. haha!

I got the tool with ACE Mega CoDecS Pack and its called:
VidCap. It builds avi files from screencaptures just like Cinecap.
I haven't tested it yet using my Fred-E-Cine Telecine.
so maybe it is crap compared to Cinecap but I doubt it.

paTriXio

[digvid]

Hi Film-O-Matic,

But...does VidCap do speed change previews, speed changes, vertical flipping during preview for Sniper units, batch post processing, etc...?

VidCap.exe is a tried-and-true sample program from Microsoft that will do streaming and stop-motion capture. However, that's about all it does. CineCap is designed to do more than that, because after capturing, your films won't look right until you do pulldown and possibly vertically/horizontally flip the image. Even if you capture with VidCap, you will need to do these things as post-processing steps. You could probably find other programs or ways to do those things too...but CineCap wraps all that functionality into one package.



- digvid

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Hi Film-O-Matic,

But...does VidCap do speed change previews, speed changes, vertical flipping during preview for Sniper units, batch post processing, etc...?

Any decent NLE program will do all that are needed.

VidCap.exe is a tried-and-true sample program from Microsoft that will do streaming and stop-motion capture. However, that's about all it does.

Well that is all that is needed. You want to fiddle with the colors and such in NLE anyway, so doing the speed change/image flip in NLE at the same time should be no problem, really. ;)

[MovieStuff]

Hi Film-O-Matic,

But...does VidCap do speed change previews, speed changes, vertical flipping during preview for Sniper units, batch post processing, etc...?

Any decent NLE program will do all that are needed.

Not at all and not even close. Unlike NLE systems, CineCap will do speed changes using the same industry standard pulldown patterns that a mucho expen$ive Rank will use. In fact, most NLE systems will deinterlace duplicate frames resulting in a loss of resolution during speed renders and NLE systems don't allow batch processing of multiple files at a single click. Many NLE systems require a render just to see a speed change while CineCap offers non-rendered, realtime speed previews randomly accessed from the directory. Also, render times of NLE systems have proven to be longer than CineCap in most instances and never shorter, unless real time NLE functions are used which fail to perform as well as CineCap does when using the industry standard pulldowns for smoother playback. The functionality of a NLE program and CineCap are totally different from a user standpoint because they are designed for different uses. CineCap allows the user to operate more efficiently and that saves time.

VidCap.exe is a tried-and-true sample program from Microsoft that will do streaming and stop-motion capture. However, that's about all it does.

Well that is all that is needed.

Not at all. See above.

You want to fiddle with the colors and such in NLE anyway, so doing the speed change/image flip in NLE at the same time should be no problem, really.

100% wrong. Real time effects like color correction are generally lost when you pile on vertical flips or speed changes in most NLE systems. Historically, CineCap batch processes speed changes and flips much faster than NLE systems do (I've tested this myself). To try and do flips, speed changes, color corrections, etc on hundreds of clips in a NLE is a huge waste of paid man hours because there is no way to batch process this type of footage. CineCap is a real timesaver, from a production standpoint, and produces better results. Most importantly, it is stupid to tie up a revenue producing edit suite rendering out flips and/or speed changes that won't even be as good since the correct pulldown patterns won't be used. This has been proven time and again by hundreds of CineCap users that switched to CineCap after trying to navigate all these issues on their favorite NLE system.

The differences between VidCap, NLE systems and CineCap are day and night to those that use them on a regular basis and are familiar with them.

Roger

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Nah, with any decent NLE you can choose if you want to de-interlace or not, no need to render to preview a speed change, I have never "lost" a color correction because I did a speed change at the same time, and with the color corrections that are needed anyway you STILL need to export the project from NLE wheather you need a speed change in the clip or not.

Industry standard pulldown or not, with a NLE you have full control over the speed change, if I remember it correctly Dodcap only has a few presets? What if the footage was shot with something like 13 fps? ;)

Paid manhours to do rendering of speed change at the same time the CC is applied? I thought it was the computer that did all that!

That is all that is needed. See above.

8)

[digvid]

Hello Uppsala,

You are right! Any NLE worth its salt will do speed changes and horizontal or vertical flips.

A comparison though:

Almost all NLE's:

- can only do speed changes/vertical flips on one file at a time
- perform speed changes by duplicating whole original frames
- see image upside-down if capturing from Sniper; re-render to correct

With CineCap:

- can perform speed change and/or flip on many files at once unattended
- does Rank-style pulldown patterns (interlaced)
- displays Sniper image right-side-up during capture
- without having to re-render, displays Sniper capture files right-side up
- allows preview of particular speed change without re-rendering
- corrects dead/hot pixels should your video camera develop them

The features I've tried to add to CineCap have been geared towards a) providing Rank-style, interlaced pulldown for smoother motion on the tele, b) allowing the user to see what a particular speed change would look like without having to do any rendering to see it, and c) automating speed changes and vertical flips to save time when working with many capture files.

So...if you are transferring with a variable-speed projector, or if you are using a very expensive machine that does pulldown as it goes, an NLE is certainly all you need. If you transfer one film frame to one video frame, however (like you do with a WorkPrinter or Sniper) then an NLE is not necessarily the easiest thing to use!

Just my opinion!

- digvid

[digvid]

Uppsala,

CineCap has been able to do custom speed change patterns from version 1.0 if you specify the pattern you want.

With the latest release, this is even easier...CineCap will do almost any speed you want, from 7 fps to 24 fps. You just enter what speed you want, and CineCap will calculate for you the smoothest-looking pattern (either whole frame or interlaced, whichever you wish).

So yes...CineCap will handle 13 fps automatically.

One thing I can say is that I have had many sales from folks who tried to use their NLE to do these tasks, but became tired of it. What I've never had happen is someone tell me they abandoned using CineCap's batch processing because they enjoy doing these tasks so much more in their NLE!

But back to my original point: VidCap and CineCap don't do exactly the same thing! Agreed?

- digvid

[MovieStuff]

Nah, with any decent NLE you can choose if you want to de-interlace or not

This has nothing to do with whether you deinterlace the footage. This has to do with how NLE systems produce speed changes. They do not do it the same as a Rank does but CineCap will. It's more efficient and looks better and that's all there is to it.

no need to render to preview a speed change,

Most NLE systems require you to render your speed change just to see if it is right. CineCap does not require it and VidCap offers no speed preview at all, real time or otherwise.

I have never "lost" a color correction because I did a speed change at the same time,

You misunderstand. I never said that you would lose your color correction. I said that on most NLE systems, you lose "real-time" color correction capability when you add a speed change or other effects. This means that you have to render your color correction and your speed change and that is less efficient than batch processing your speed changes seperately and then doing real time color correction during editing on NLEs that will allow it.

and with the color corrections that are needed anyway you STILL need to export the project from NLE wheather you need a speed change in the clip or not.

Nope. There are NLE systems that offer real time, non-render color correction. That capability is lost when you add flips and speed changes to the equation.

Industry standard pulldown or not, with a NLE you have full control over the speed change,

Actually, you have little control over the FPS rate, compared to CineCap, and even less control over the quality of the motion since NLEs historically deinterlace the duplicate frames as I noted before. The bottom line is that CineCap produces better results on speed changes.

if I remember it correctly Dodcap only has a few presets?

And VidCap and NLEs have none.

What if the footage was shot with something like 13 fps?

The current version of CineCap will allow you to dial in in any speed you wish and it will calculate the smoothest pulldown pattern required. NLE systems do it in percentages that work convenient for the NLE system at the sacrifice of quality and motion. That's why CineCap is so popular. It simply works better for this application.

Paid manhours to do rendering of speed change at the same time the CC is applied? I thought it was the computer that did all that!

Dragging an entire folder of clips into CineCap for batch processing of the speed change and/or flip is far and away faster than applying speed changes one at a time on your NLE. THAT's what takes time and it has to be done manually, one by one, instead of drag and click. Also, any cheap computer can be used to batch process speed changes/flips while doing this on your NLE ties up both human and computer resources. There is no comparison if working in volume.

That is all that is needed. See above.

You misunderstand the concept. See above.

Roger

[super8man]

What we have here is the classic: What is the right tool for the job being argued by amateurs.

Sorry folks. Cinecap is THE TOOL TO USE if you are batching anything more than a single 50-footer. Otherwise, yes, do your own slowdowns and time changes and renders with FCP, Vegas, Premiere, etc. Noone will notice since they won't pay attention to your movie anyway.

And yes, the crescent wrench will undo most of the bolts in your car but again, most mechanics agree you need the right tool for the job. Not using Cinecap is sOrt of like saying you don't need a torque wrench when assembling the heads on a short block.

[Film-0-Matic]

Noone will notice since they won't pay attention to your movie anyway.

heheh:-) sooo true

but for those who do notice I never used the speed change function in Cinecap. After capturing (frame by frame) and setting it for 18fps it just isn't doing 18fps. (why? no idea)
I use VirtualDubMod (it has batch capability) for flipping, stabilizing and speed change.
In my case I could have done without Cinecap. BUT I probably would have bought it anyway

patrizio

[VideoFred]

I never used the speed change function in Cinecap. After capturing (frame by frame) and setting it for 18fps it just isn't doing 18fps. (why? no idea)
patrizio

Double post...
See below

[VideoFred]

Patrizio,

Do we know each other?
For speed change/frame rate conversion in Cinecap, source must be 25fps for PAL and 30fps for NTSC.

Just use Virtual Dubs source rate adjustment for this.

Normal Workprinter users are using a standard digital camera.
Cinecap takes over frame rate of this camera.

Webcam-or machine cam- users must change frame rate before frame rate conversion in Cinecap.

Fred.

[Film-0-Matic]

ahaaa! thanks Fred! It works.. another thing i have learned today :idea:
i never set the fps to 25 for the output file in Cinecap..

Double post...
See below

okee :arrow:

patrizio

[VideoFred]

you can edit your message with the edit button

Yes, but I can not delete it :mrgreen:

Fred.