Slow motion shots

[freddiesykes]

Sorry if this doesn't belong here since it is not necessarily a technical question, but rather a general filmmaking question. I just like this forum .

Would a slow motion shot translate better on screen if I executed it during actual filming (36fps) or just slowing the shot later in Premiere? Personally, I would rather just do it as I'm shooting, but two problems come to mind. The first problem is that it will raise my budget slightly, which, now that I think about it, is really not too huge of a deal since christmas is coming up so soon. The second problem is having the footage telecined. If I have that 36fps sequence on one part of the reel and a 24fps sequence on the other, the 36fps shot won't exactly be slow-mo anymore will it? I just don't want a cheesy, video-esque slow-mo shot. I want it to look like film! I may have answered my own question, but I would still like all your thoughts. Thanks.

[Andreas Wideroe]

It will be MUCH better to do it while shooting because then you actually shoot more frames while when you do it in Premiere the program duplicates frames.

The result is much sharper and smoother slow-mo than the "jumpy" slow-mo premiere makes.

[freddiesykes]

Ah! Thought so! Thank you Andreas for your quick response. So I should just let the guy know that the footage was shot at 36fps when I have it transferred?

[mathis]

You very likely will want to shoot at higher framerates than 36fps for slomo. 36fps is nice for smoothing out movements like pans or bumps in a car but it doesn´t really look like the slomo you probably expect. Go for at least 54fps.

[kettuz]

So I should just let the guy know that the footage was shot at 36fps when I have it transferred?

No need. The point is, after all, that you take a shot with a higher fps and then play it out with the normal 24 fps.

[VideoFred]

If I have that 36fps sequence on one part of the reel and a 24fps sequence on the other, the 36fps shot won't exactly be slow-mo anymore will it? Thanks.

It will stay slow motion, unless the transfer guy would transfer in real time at 36fps.(but he won't do that).

I agree with Andeas: Much better if you make the film with high frame rate. Also agree with Mathis: 54fps is the way to go.

Low budget solution, also for existing non-slow motion 18fps footage: Motion Perfect. http://www.dynapel.com/index.shtml

Creates real slow motion from non-slow motion source, but source must be frame accurate: no duplicates! Motion Perfect sometimes gives 'rubber' artefacts, too, It depends on the scene.

Similar plugins are available -free- for Avisynth, now.
But not perfect yet... Developers are working on it.
However, I had some very fine results with both Motion Perfect and Avisynth.

Attention: this is NOT the slow down method of most NLE programs!
It is real slow motion, by creating new frames, based on motion estimation.

Fred.

[matt5791]

One of the great advantages of film, is a little super8 camera is capable of beautiful slow motion effects unavailable to the video world.

DEFINITELY shoot at a high frame rate. Slowing down in post looks crappy, UNLESS you want the non-smooth look, which can look good sometimes for certain applications.

Matt

[super8man]

Low budget solution, also for existing non-slow motion 18fps footage: Motion Perfect. http://www.dynapel.com/index.shtml

Creates real slow motion from non-slow motion source, but source must be frame accurate: no duplicates! Motion Perfect sometimes gives 'rubber' artefacts, too, It depends on the scene.

Similar plugins are available -free- for Avisynth, now.
But not perfect yet... Developers are working on it.
However, I had some very fine results with both Motion Perfect and Avisynth.

Attention: this is NOT the slow down method of most NLE programs!
It is real slow motion, by creating new frames, based on motion estimation.

Fred.

Darn, the "free demo" version requires waaay too much information to bother. And the full version is $50US. Ouch.

Better to shoot at 54fps if you can. 36fps will have to do if that's all you have though. You'll get twice the definition over 18fps.

[steve hyde]

....no doubt that slow motion is best recorded in camera.

it puts more visual information on the tape.

This brings me to my own question related to this sort of thing.

Do you guys think it is advantageous in any way to take footage that is shot at say 24fps and then transfer it at say 12fps?

I'm thinking this would put more information on the tape. Then it could be sped up in the NLE software.

My own thought is that this might lead to a slightly richer image that would be less prone to drop outs and other artifacts.

The reason I ask is because I have some really old 8mm footage (family stuff) that I want to have xfered and I'm thinking of asking the colorist to slow all the footage down so that I have more creative control in post.

Am I being foolish in thinking I will gain something by doing this?

IT works for music.

Steve

[freddiesykes]

I've an 814 XL-S, so the max I will get is 36fps. Hell, I should just pick up a cheap camera on ebay that will allow 54fps. I've been meaning to get a B cam anyways. Thanks everyone for the excellent information.

[audadvnc]

I concur with everyone else here, if you're shooting film, and you have the ability to shoot at a higher speed, it'll look better than the post-production video trickery. I shot 16mm with a Filmo at 48fps for 24fps playback and the result is luscious, even after telecine to 29.97 video.

Video originated footage starts at 29.97, so half speed gives you (a little less than) 15fps, which is about what R8 silent speed is. It doesn't look too bad. But if you half speed R8 silent it comes-out-at-8-frames-per-sec-ond-which-is-pret-ty-chop-py.

I remember seeing some cinema footage of US President Teddy Roosevelt from about 1908. The post production studio figured the original speed must have been around 8fps, and when played at real time the film looked like stop motion.

[Justin Lovell]

One of the great advantages of film, is a little super8 camera is capable of beautiful slow motion effects unavailable to the video world.

Panasonic has released a HD camera that can record at variable frame rates.

http://www.panasonic.com/business/provi ... d_faqs.asp

http://www.google.com/search?client=ope ... 8&oe=utf-8

never tested it, but as much as it makes me happy to hear the news, it makes me just as sad to know that the video world is getting much closer to emulating to the film world.

You could shoot at 36fps and transfer @ 18fps.
or
Shoot at 54fps and transfer at 24fps.

Will provide similar results.

Transfering 54fps at 18fps, will playback slower than if transeferred at 24fps.

[reflex]

Panasonic has released a HD camera that can record at variable frame rates.

Not quite... "It is important to understand that only the camera section operates at variable frame rates. The VTR and the camera HD-SDI output operate at a constant 60-fps rate. If you set the camera for 60-fps with no shutter, the exposure time is 1/60th of a second and each camera frame is recorded once on tape. As soon as the frame rate becomes lower than 60, exposure time increases proportionally and redundant frames are recorded on tape.

For example, if the camera operates at 30-fps, each new frame is recorded twice to ensure 60-fps on tape. 24-fps is a non-evenly-divisible frame rate and requires the classic 3:2 type pulldown frame sequence with one frame recorded three times and the next two times. As you see, this technique generates redundant frames used to pad the data to maintain a constant 60-fps on tape including both new frames and redundant (repeated) frames."

[Justin Lovell]

huh.

I'll have to read on more. I was told it can shoot 9fps to 60fps... but if its just draggin the shutter for the lower frame rates, that's not what I'd be looking for.

And if its just doubling frames to make 60fps, then that's not highspeed at all!!

who are they kidding? (me obviously... but not anymore!)

[Patrick]

Another great thing about filming at higher frame rates in the camera is that you utilise faster shutter speeds. So your images will look sharper, in addition to being smoother.