question about converting 8mm to DV cam digital...

[mandyyjobs]

I have a question : is it the nature of the beast that there is flickering when converting 8mm to digital using one of the those cheap telecine converters (projector one end, DV cam in the other)? I wasn;t sure if it was just me or that is what all transfers look like...maybe it is my eumig624d projector?

[JGrube]

For the most part yes. Generally the variation between the projector framerate and the framerate of the video camera causes the captured image to flicker. If you have a variable speed projector, you can adjust the speed little by little until the flicker goes away, usually around 15fps.

Professional transfer houses either have special 5-bladed projectors or simply scan one frame at a time in order to avoid the flicker problem. At home though, flicker is still an issue. Also, if your video camera has a slow shutter mode, you can combat flicker that way as well, while possibly sacrificing some clarity because of overlapping frames.

hope this helps,

Jason

[johnnhud]

Mandyyjobs, here is something that I did to elimate the strobing effect of OTW (Off the wall) transfers.

First, make sure that your camera is NOT set on Automatic. You will never get a clear image because the camera will try to focus into the image as opposed to on it.

With the lights on, place a sheet of paper with large text or photograph on the screen and use your camera's manuel focus to focus in on the image. Make sure it's as sharp as it can be.

Assuming that you have a mid-grade DV camera, you should be able to go into the features and mess with your settings. I have found that the best thing to do on my Canon Optura 20 is to set it in "Low Light" mode. Your camera may have a simular setting. This will slow the frame rate of the camera to let in more light, but it also slows it down closer to what the projector projects at. You can then play with the camera's exposure settings and by increasing or decreasing you should be able to get a pretty good image.

After going though all these settings, you may want to use the remote control that came with your camera to start/stop recording because if you bump the camera it will have to be recentered on the screen.

I can get some pretty good transfers this way. Plus I can make them even better if I sit behind the camera and adjust the exposure manualy depending on the scene. (Darker scenes require more exposure to bring out details, lighter scenes require less exposure)

You will never get a super high quality transfer this way, but this will work for the majority of the people out there. Chances are however, if your posting on this forum, you want the best that there is, and THAT, my dear always cost a little extra.

Hope this helps.

[johnnhud]

One more thing, I would avoid adjusting the speed of the projector. This sometimes seems like an easy solution but often makes your images run faster than they are suppose to. Giving it a comical Charlie Chaplin look. Doing it the way I suggest will keep your films moving in real time and look much more natural.

[tlatosmd]

You will never get a super high quality transfer this way, but this will work for the majority of the people out there. Chances are however, if your posting on this forum, you want the best that there is, and THAT, my dear always cost a little extra.

About 1 Dollar/Euro per footage minute should be an average price. So it's about 3.50 per 50ft reel.

[VideoFred]

About 1 Dollar/Euro per footage minute should be an average price. So it's about 3.50 per 50ft reel.

I often considered to transfer for others, too.
The problem is: for this price I could only offer a 'raw' transfer.

This means: the customer would rescieve a data DVD with scene-by-scene AVI files on it, frame accurate. Not a one light transfer, but color/light corrected as good as possible, scene by scene. Some scenes still needs correction afterwards.

All the rest must be done by the customer:
Color/light correction, cutting bad frames, adding sound, authoring etc..

I someone asks for a complete authored DVD, I think 4-5 Euro/minute film is a more realistic price. But who is giong to pay for this?

It takes hours and hours to do a realy good job.

Fred.

[Shanec8mm]

here's how I get flicker-free transfers using a DV camcorder. I own a JVC DV model GR-DVL505U from around 2002, it offers many features for changing video and audio settings. I set the camera using the manual settings. I change the shutter speed by 1 or as the camcorder says times 4. Then I place the cam on a tripod turn on the projector making the image very small also I have a ceiling light on above me to make more light, then I just turn the projector on and focus the cam and start recorder, it all results in flicker-free images. when I am done I plug the cam into my computer via a IEEE firewire cable and then I start using my roxio creator 6 program which as transtions, video filters, etc. and then once I have finalized it all roxio burns it to a DVD -R for me.

[clivetobin]

I have a question : is it the nature of the beast that there is flickering...

You don't say where you are located. Either way to minimize the flicker there are general principles involved including the running speed. You need to lock the shutter speed of the camera to 1/60 or 1/50 second. Virtually all stock home movie projectors have 3-bladed shutters so there is no visible flicker to your eye when running at 18 FPS, which gives 54 flashes per second which your eye sees as continuous light unless you are showing it as a very small and over-bright size.

If you are in the USA you would run your projector at 20 (actually 19.98) frames per second, so the flashing rate with your standard 3-bladed shutter matches the vertical field rate of 59.94 Hz. (19.98 x 3 = 59.94.) If the speed is accurate enough, say within 1%, the video camera does not see this as flicker.

If you are in a PAL country, this same projector with stock 3-bladed shutter would need to be adjusted to 16-2/3 FPS so the flashing rate equals the vertical field rate of 50 Hz. (16-2/3 x 3 = 50.)

The mythical "5 bladed shutter as a universal panacea" remarks are only made by people who don't understand the principles. The 5-blade shutter only works with film that was shot and transferred at 24 FPS (or 12 FPS) into NTSC video. With PAL video, flicker is eliminated by using a 2-blade shutter when filming and projecting at 25 FPS. For old 8mm film, an NTSC transfer is best done with a 4-bladed shutter running at 15 (actually 14.985) FPS which is closer to the original 15-16 FPS filming rate for regular 8mm film.

Building an adequately precise shutter with a different number of blades is not a trivial matter. Also most projectors have a once-per-frame flutter in the speed that translates to some flicker even if the blade count and average speed is correct, owing to lack of inertia and a stretchy rubber drive belt.

Equipment is available for doing the job correctly. Said equipment does *NOT* include the nasty little grainy groundglass and cheap mirror boxes being sold on Ebay. Check out the two ads on the filmshooting.com home page over on the right.