LIKE SAVING THE KODACHROME

[Poliestere]

Ektachrome 64T, Velvia 50D, VISION2 50D, ok, will be also good for the quality of the image, but their duration in the time? Used these films and between little years you will have images faded and with chromatic dominant. If this is good for you... you do not believe instead that we must make something for the sturdy K40?
:?: If instead you preferred only to cry on its tomb instead make something...

[LastQuark]

I thought E100VS was meant to be closer to Velvia (than E100GX), having been designed to compete with it?

Yes, I was referrring to the Exxx family compared to other stocks.

I gather it's also the basis of Kodak 5285/7285 (E100D), which I think would have a much better chance of appearing in Super8 (since it already exists in movie film form in 16mm/35mm).

I hope not. E100D is older generation and is grainier than the new T-grain based stocks.

As for Vision2 50D, check out this review:
http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004 ... opic=10137
Given that 16mm shows the most noticeable improvement of this new stock over the old EXR version, Super8 would probably benefit from the low grain even more greatly.

I agree. The new Vision2 50D should be wonderful for super 8. Personally, I prefer the new Vision2 50D over the Exxx series stocks. But if we are to compromise, I will take any.

From John's statement, there is still a chance to introduce 1 more stock in super 8. I hope everybody can come to an agreement what this stock will be.

[etimh]

I agree. The new Vision2 50D should be wonderful for super 8. Personally, I prefer the new Vision2 50D over the Exxx series stocks. But if we are to compromise, I will take any.

From John's statement, there is still a chance to introduce 1 more stock in super 8. I hope everybody can come to an agreement what this stock will be.

Please excuse my naivete on this topic, but why couldn't a new negative stock be made in a 40ASA speed? Its not that much of a difference from 50 and it would work in all of the old cameras.

It would be a slow, low-grain, neg stock for all you pros, but it would also allow many people to continue to just drop in some film and not worry about tricks or odd-ball fixes to get the right exposure.

Is this dumb? Please fill me in. Sorry, but I'm most concerned about K40's demise because of all the cameras which become USELESS (including some of mine, it seems).

Tim

[audadvnc]

Vision 2 50D would be the cat's pajamas in Super 8. I suppose it would require exposure comp modifications on the 40/160 only cameras, but by now people should be figuring out which cameras are worth the trouble of keeping and modifying them as needed.

I just modd'ed my Bauer S715XL for the ASA 64 and other stocks; it took a 1/2 hour of labor and $2.00 worth of parts. Now it will accept anything from ASA 5 to 640. Definitely worthwhile!

[etimh]

I suppose it would require exposure comp modifications on the 40/160 only cameras, but by now people should be figuring out which cameras are worth the trouble of keeping and modifying them as needed.

Well, you really didn't answer my question about why a 40 would not be just as good as a 50. But its your above comment, and others like it, that really confuse me.

"Worth the trouble of keeping"? I suppose this would be a concern for pro/semi-pro shooters, but where do you imagine all of these old cameras are going to go? Some onto shelves, I suppose, but most straight into the garbage. What a shame.

So many people (including myself) got turned onto Super8 by finding an old 40/160 camera, dropping in some cheap K40, and getting back some really great images ready to go. All these unique experiences will disappear and so many potential new Super8 filmmakers will be bypassed as the "club" becomes even more exclusive.

Most of my cameras don't have a problem reading any stock and I'll do what I can to modify or mess with those that do. But many people either won't have the knowledge or the desire to bother with it. And they, like all of the possible new users, will unfortunately be gone for good.

Tim

[Janne]

Please excuse my naivete on this topic, but why couldn't a new negative stock be made in a 40ASA speed? Its not that much of a difference from 50 and it would work in all of the old cameras.

Don't worry, negative films like overexposure. This will reduce graininess and the latitude is very wide compared to reversal films. EI 40 would be considered the *perfect* exposure for the 50D.

[Shion]

I gather it's also the basis of Kodak 5285/7285 (E100D), which I think would have a much better chance of appearing in Super8 (since it already exists in movie film form in 16mm/35mm).

I hope not. E100D is older generation and is grainier than the new T-grain based stocks.

The "new" T-grain based stocks were introduced in 1998 or so, if I'm not mistaken. 5285 was introduced in 1999 (see here). According to this page, 5285 is T-grain based. The page also suggests that E100VS is the closest stills film to 5285, which may well be an indication that they are based on the same emulsion.

From John's statement, there is still a chance to introduce 1 more stock in super 8. I hope everybody can come to an agreement what this stock will be.

I think I'd be happy to see either E100D or V2/50D, although I can't say for sure without having seen either stock in 16mm form. We've got a good chance of seeing some E100D in Super8 form soon, now that Wittner are selling it.

The fact that Wittner are already doing E100D might be a reason to favour Kodak introducing V2/50D, so that (a) there are more choices overall, and (b) Wittner's investment in E100D won't be negated. As I said earlier, I think Kodak would rather wait until stocks of E64T (which would have a hard time competing with E100D) get low before introducing E100D in Super8 themselves.

-Bon

[tlatosmd]

My suggestion:

Give me 40ASA or 160ASA, and make it a Tungsten reversal. It should be as fine-grained (while the grain being monochrome!) as K40 or a similarly slow reversal or negative film. If you can don't make it more expensive than 25 Euros when including processing (doesn't mean it has to be pre-paid, actually).

That's all I'd be asking for. Who knows, maybe we'll get it from North Korea?

[Patrick]

A new 40asa super 8 film from Kodak would certainly be ideal but it will almost certainly never happen. Because super 8 is such a tiny market, Kodak would never spend money and resources creating a new film stock specifically for super 8. Instead, they taken an existing film stock in 16mm / 35mm cine or slide film and utilize that. Don't quote me on this but I don't think there are any Kodak 40asa film stocks in any of these larger formats, apart from 16mm K40. Though who knows, perhaps oneday Kodak could release a new 16mm / 35mm film stock that just happens to have a speed of 40 asa but what are the chances of that....

[John_Pytlak]

As has been written in many other threads, Kodak VISION2 Color Negative Films have tremendous latitude, so overexposure by a stop or two still produces fine images. In fact, when you moderately overexpose a color negative, you get finer grain and more shadow detail, but you do need to be sure you don't overexpose to the extent the negative is too dense to transfer well.

I recall that someone was going to test exposing Kodak VISION2 200T color negative film 7217 at EI-40 tungsten (just like K40). I predict that the images will look very good, with very fine grain and excellent sharpness and color.

[matt5791]

I recall that someone was going to test exposing Kodak VISION2 200T color negative film 7217 at EI-40 tungsten (just like K40). I predict that the images will look very good, with very fine grain and excellent sharpness and color.

I'd agree with you there John - after all thats only just over 2 stops over exposure.

Some of my recent shots were around 3 stops over exposed and all the detail is there.

Matt

[audadvnc]

But many people either won't have the knowledge or the desire to bother with it.

Tim

Exposure compensation modification qualifies as camera maintenance, and is a practical necessity if you want to use one of the old cameras to its best effect. Refusing to maintain your classic camera makes about as much sense as refusing to adjust your classic sports car to run on unleaded gas.

Or perhaps you can mount a petition to Standard Oil to bring back ethyl so you can drive the Studebaker around the block?

[tlatosmd]

Exposure compensation modification qualifies as camera maintenance, and is a practical necessity if you want to use one of the old cameras to its best effect. Refusing to maintain your classic camera makes about as much sense as refusing to adjust your classic sports car to run on unleaded gas.

Or perhaps you can mount a petition to Standard Oil to bring back ethyl so you can drive the Studebaker around the block?

The question is, why does Standard Oil switch to absinth even though most cars run on refined gas?

Don't get me wrong, it's not the process, it's the unusual filmspeed for S8 plus the introduction of tremendous, multi-colored grain. And what about the 3200K vs. 3400K issue?

[etimh]

Exposure compensation modification qualifies as camera maintenance

What?! :lol:

Major camera "modification" equals "maintenance"? Are you kidding?

Your intentions are admirable, but you know as well as I that this is silly.

Tim

[etimh]

As has been written in many other threads, Kodak VISION2 Color Negative Films have tremendous latitude, so overexposure by a stop or two still produces fine images. In fact, when you moderately overexpose a color negative, you get finer grain and more shadow detail, but you do need to be sure you don't overexpose to the extent the negative is too dense to transfer well.

I admit, this sounds promising.

I recall that someone was going to test exposing Kodak VISION2 200T color negative film 7217 at EI-40 tungsten (just like K40). I predict that the images will look very good, with very fine grain and excellent sharpness and color.

I guess I'll give it a try--see how it comes out.

Tim