Max 8:New life for super 8 or gimmick?

[super8man]

Seems to me if you are into MAX8 (super dooper 8, etc), then you should consider dropping ANY 8 and move up to 16mm and crop the gate DOWN to get the perspective you require. Call me old fashioned I guess. Don't sink too much money into super 8, it may not be around in the future...however 16mm will always be around.

Hence my motto: keep it cheap.

[audadvnc]

Seems to me if you are into MAX8 (super dooper 8, etc), then you should consider dropping ANY 8 and move up to 16mm and crop the gate DOWN to get the perspective you require.

Or if you have the scratch, shoot 2 perf 35mm like the old spaghetti westerns.

[edgebsl]

Isn't "spaghetti' slang for 16mm? A thought that was the origin of the spaghetti western.

If that's the case would a 2 perf shoot make it a "linguini" western? lol

Maybe Fettuccini?

[Justin Lovell]

making me hungry.

the Kraft Dinner wasn't cutting it today. I feel kinda lousy after eating it for lunch and leftover for dinner.

[Shion]

Isn't "spaghetti' slang for 16mm? A thought that was the origin of the spaghetti western.

I thought it referred to westerns made in Italy, and/or by Italian directors (e.g. Leone)...

In any case, many of them were filmed in 2-perf 35mm... known as "Techniscope" at the time.

-Bon

[MovieStuff]

Nobody is asking you to readily accept opinions based on second hand information as valid complaints. It might be nice if you didn't label those who do as "whiners", though.

Sorry, but an "opinion" isn't a fact, "second hand information" isn't a fact, and anyone that sees their opinion based on second hand information as a "valid complaint" is not only a whiner, but an uninformed whiner, at that.

Any company is going to have its share of customers that are unhappy in one way or the other. It happens with both the best of companies and the worst. Nothing in the world is going to prevent that and I don't deny anyone the right to be pissed if they have actually been taken advantage of. Hell I would be, too, and might post about it, if I thought it was appropriate. But you won't find me posting a complaint about a company simply because I read that someone else heard that someone else had a problem and that is mostly what I see here on this forum and others regarding Pro8mm, Yale, etc.

If you read my original post, my beef is with people that merely repeat second or third hand information as fact and seem to take some sort of glee in slamming a company that they have zero experience with, simply because it seems like the popular thing to do. For every valid complaint, there are dozens of wannabe complainers that are doing nothing more than taking a communal whiz on a company because others are doing it, too, and not because they have a legitimate beef. Sure, free speech allows them to do that. Free speech also allows me to out them as "whiners". What else do you call someone that complains for no reason?

Regarding my comment about super 8 "growing up", I was referring to the desires of so many that long to see super 8 accepted by the mainstream as a mature medium and not merely a home movie relic of the past. Personally, I saw super 8 as a serious medium long ago. For better or for worse (and quite possibly the worse), I made what many consider to be the first commercially successful feature film back in the early 80s with "The Jet Benny Show", so I don't need to be convinced of the viability of the format. But, in my opinion, maturity of the format is linked to the maturity of the person using the format and I often see little in the way of maturity in some of the posts by the whiners that populate many forums, including this one. They may have the right to do it but it certainly gets old.

Roger

[S8 Booster]

Isn't "spaghetti' slang for 16mm? A thought that was the origin of the spaghetti western.

I thought it referred to westerns made in Italy, and/or by Italian directors (e.g. Leone)...

In any case, many of them were filmed in 2-perf 35mm... known as "Techniscope" at the time.

-Bon

pretty sure "spaghetti westerns" are western films shot in spain with Italian directors.


s/hoot

[S8 Booster]

havent had to much to do with pro8 but i bought a trial package from them and they split and perfed 122m Fuji F500 into 24 carts for me without any problem.

there was an initial communication snag on the fuji bit which was immediately solved by Phil when he took charge. the rest was handled by mr Pesterino? - quick efficient and no problem at all.

i think this negative film thing has issues often overlooked but "1 time shooters": it introduces so many new variables never needed to take into consideration with K40/reversal and the results may vary a lot despite rather proper treatment.

think it was Alex n Nigel and more here on the board who mentioned that you need to by-sit the colourist at the transfer to get the things end up the way YOU want it to be. thats a nut to crack but probably very true.


additionally - pro8 does offer options not available by Kodak so i think it is rather unfair to behead them outright like many do from 2nd hand knowledge.

as a customer your have the opportunity to chose which supplier you want. if you dont want them- dont use them. there are options.


my twinola du-nots.

s/hoot

[tlatosmd]

I've also always thought that 'spaghetti western' related to it all being so Italian in or about those films.

There's a joke with a beard that spaghetti westerns are so Italian those cowboys exclusively eat spaghetti in those flicks.

[S8 Booster]

well, those trinity guys are italian and they started off in western films didnt they? generally very cheap productions and as far as i know their western films were shot in spain as well.


s/hoot

[Mitch Perkins]

Seems to me if you are into MAX8 (super dooper 8, etc), then you should consider dropping ANY 8 and move up to 16mm and crop the gate DOWN to get the perspective you require.

Where can I get my hands on some of this ANY8? It sounds like a pretty flexible format. ~:?)

Call me old fashioned I guess. Don't sink too much money into super 8, it may not be around in the future...however 16mm will always be around.

Hence my motto: keep it cheap.

I got the idea awhile ago that if Super8 kept looking better and better, (neg stocks, improved telecine, [thanks Justin et all]) then it might be 16mm on the chopping block. However, Super16 is extensively used for docs, TV shows, and features slated for blowup. So I no longer think that.
Good for me.

Mitch

[Mitch Perkins]

Nobody is asking you to readily accept opinions based on second hand information as valid complaints. It might be nice if you didn't label those who do as "whiners", though.

Sorry, but an "opinion" isn't a fact, "second hand information" isn't a fact, and anyone that sees their opinion based on second hand information as a "valid complaint" is not only a whiner, but an uninformed whiner, at that.

I would agree to the extent that "I heard that..." should be taken only as an initial consideration in further, more detailed research. Just that sometimes what the person heard turns out to be true...

Any company is going to have its share of customers that are unhappy in one way or the other. It happens with both the best of companies and the worst. Nothing in the world is going to prevent that and I don't deny anyone the right to be pissed if they have actually been taken advantage of. Hell I would be, too, and might post about it, if I thought it was appropriate. But you won't find me posting a complaint about a company simply because I read that someone else heard that someone else had a problem and that is mostly what I see here on this forum and others regarding Pro8mm, Yale, etc.

Certainly, jumping in out of the blue to post second/third hand negative stuff about a business is questionable. I was thinking more of the scenario in which someone posts a question re a business's service reputation, then the second hand info should be ID'd as such by the giver, and treated accordingly by the taker. I wouldn't necessarily write it off immediately...

If you read my original post, my beef is with people that merely repeat second or third hand information as fact and seem to take some sort of glee in slamming a company that they have zero experience with, simply because it seems like the popular thing to do. For every valid complaint, there are dozens of wannabe complainers that are doing nothing more than taking a communal whiz on a company because others are doing it, too, and not because they have a legitimate beef. Sure, free speech allows them to do that. Free speech also allows me to out them as "whiners". What else do you call someone that complains for no reason?

A complainer? ~:?)
Yes, the folks you refer to above are wasting bandwidth, fersure.

Regarding my comment about super 8 "growing up", I was referring to the desires of so many that long to see super 8 accepted by the mainstream as a mature medium and not merely a home movie relic of the past. Personally, I saw super 8 as a serious medium long ago. For better or for worse (and quite possibly the worse), I made what many consider to be the first commercially successful feature film back in the early 80s with "The Jet Benny Show", so I don't need to be convinced of the viability of the format. But, in my opinion, maturity of the format is linked to the maturity of the person using the format and I often see little in the way of maturity in some of the posts by the whiners that populate many forums, including this one. They may have the right to do it but it certainly gets old.

Roger

Okay.
Roger, I initially found your comments questionable, and I have a bad smartass problem. I should have drawn you out more civilly, but maybe you got a laugh...
I certainly make questionable statements, and you're cordially invited to call me out any old way you like.
Where can I get a copy of "The Jet Benny Show", for better or worse?

Mitch

[Justin Lovell]

i think i just saw a virtual hug and hand shake.

warms my heart in this joyous holiday season.

[kjellpell]

I have been following this discussion for "some time", and I start wondering what's wrong with me??? I have been using Pro8mm several times, and, believe it or not, I AM VERY PLEASED WITH BOTH THEIR SERVICE AND PRODUCTS.
Actually, my "relationship" goes back a looooong way - to the time when it was called Super8Sound, and that means way back in the seventies. That's even before most of you "never tried'em, but still complainers" were even "tadpoles". So, as you probably already guessed, I fully agree with Roger's first (and all the rest) contribution to this discussion. You have never used them, never bought anything, never tried any of their services. Still you are backbiting and acting worse than pitbulls!!!
"I heard someone say...." and you consider that the truth??? On top of you shoulders, there's a thing called "head". Use it - to think - and not only to carry your hat around. Or is it only vacuum inside??? Or maybe you are just green with envy, bacause you can't afford to use them???
Overpriced, what is that??? Depends on your wallet, doesn't it? If you can find the same products elsewhere, and much cheaper, go there. Buy your stuff there. No need to spread lies and gossip. Pro8mm provides professional services to professionals. If you can afford their services and products, you get good quality. If you can't, go somewhere else. Don't complain and spread your gossip.

So for the widescreen issue. By widening the gate, you are using more of the available film width, and getting better resolution. But the drawbacks have already been mentioned. One contributor to this discussion said: "Forget S8mm. Go for 16mm and mask down your frame." Bad idea. Why go to 16mm, pay a lot more for both equipment and film, and then waste so much of the frame-area again. (and 16mm beeing around forever???? Who believes in fairy-tales.) So why not use the third option?? No modification to your camera, no waste of frame area, and at a lower price than both widening the S8mm gate and going up to 16mm!!
Use one of the many A-lenses available. Isco from Germany made 3 very good lenses suitable for S8mm. The Isco 36, 42 and 54. Which one to choose will depend on the diameter of the front element of your lens. And all 3 lenses screws into the filter-threads of your lens. You use the entire frame-area, no special equipment when scanning (just transfer the compressed image) and with a 1,5x compression, it makes a nice 16:9 widescreen picture when played back from a DVD on your widescreen TV. Easy, low price and very good results.

[Mitch Perkins]

I have been following this discussion for "some time", and I start wondering what's wrong with me??? I have been using Pro8mm several times, and, believe it or not, I AM VERY PLEASED WITH BOTH THEIR SERVICE AND PRODUCTS.

Yours is the post we've all been waiting for; postive feedback re Pro8mm, because come to think of it, even *firsthand* negative experiences of one person *do not guarantee* the same for others. Mine unfortunately have all been bad, (cue sound of dramatic weeping), and believe it or not I have extremely pleasant phone manners.

"I heard someone say...." and you consider that the truth???

Nope. Just possibly worth considering. Google groups has an option - "find messages by this author", which can be used to find out if the poster is simply a full time complainer, or is usually positive.

On top of you shoulders, there's a thing called "head". Use it - to think - and not only to carry your hat around.

I have a special device for this purpose - http://www.hatcarrier.com

Overpriced, what is that??? Depends on your wallet, doesn't it?

Nope; price-to-quality of service/product ratio, going market rate, etc.

Pro8mm provides professional services to professionals.

This is true of many firms, some, as I said, much bigger and busier than Pro8. Treating all callers/inquiries with equal respect is good business practice.

So why not use the third option??
Use one of the many A-lenses available. Isco from Germany made 3 very good lenses suitable for S8mm. The Isco 36, 42 and 54. Which one to choose will depend on the diameter of the front element of your lens. And all 3 lenses screws into the filter-threads of your lens. You use the entire frame-area, no special equipment when scanning (just transfer the compressed image) and with a 1,5x compression, it makes a nice 16:9 widescreen picture when played back from a DVD on your widescreen TV. Easy, low price and very good results.

I would love to try one of the anamorphic lenses. Hmm, can't afford it right now, so I think I'll just badmouth Isco. Give me some time to think up some harmful lies.

Thanks for the laughs and the advice.

Mitch