Who's up for a fight with Kodak?

[Patrick]

The polyester in single 8 film is what makes this film so thin.

[matt5791]

yep, but why Fuji don´t release Velvia 50/100 in Single 8 format, E-6 process which can be developed in any place of the world, instead of R25N and RT200 which can by processed only by Fuji Film in Japan?

Good point. I wonder if it's ever been suggested to them? I have no idea how popular Single8 is compared to Super8, or if they have the same level of communication with their customers that Kodak do.

Speaking of Fuji: is all Fuji stock thinner than Kodak stock, or just the R25N/RT200? What is the reason for the difference in thickness, and is there any reason it might make Fuji stock problematic in the Supermag?

-Bon

It has a polyester base - I think.

I'm sure someone will confirm.

Matt

[Alex]

The problem with the polyester is that it doesn't rip. The Single 8 cartridge design probably ensures that the cartridge gives way in the event of a problem rather than have the camera motor or claw get destroyed by a piece of stuck film that won't rip.

[Alex]

I think the $50,000 is the typical minimum on FTO orders. Considering dealings I've had with other companies on small manufacturing, it doesn't seem like an unfair minimum. I thought the terms though were extreme -- order and pay next week or you can't have it for a year. I believe the minimum on the failed DS8 order was also USD 50,000. There was enough interest to raise the money for the order -- it just took much longer than one week to assemble.

But 50 cents a foot appears to be ridiculous. I seriously wonder if it's 50 cents a foot, but you end up with 3 or 4 strands of Super-8 film, thereby reducing the cost to a much more reasonable 13 to 17 cents a foot.

[matt5791]

50c a foot sounds far too much money to justify the order.

What is wrong with slitting up and re-perforating 35mm??

Mabey ordering new freshly made super8 is simply not economic for a niche market, and not the way to go - hence why pro8 does not do this.

Lets face it, the supermag is a niche within a niche within a niche!

Matt

[M'Lord]

I am discovering a few shining rays of hope on this web-site; diamonds amongst the dim coal. I say, you, son, appear a mental giant in your reasoning, comparitive to the overwhelming deluge of fools who have nearly led me to give up on this web-site, and your post on this matter is worth quoting for its merit.

My personal opinion is that Kodak supports this format REALLY well and I think that we should work with them as much as possible.

I'm not insinuating anything, but didn't you fall out with Pro8 too?

Oscar Wilde might have said, to fall out with one film company would be unfortunate, but to fall out with 2 might seem like carelessness.

As regards you investor, this was always a high risk venture.

Matt

[Carlos 8mm]

Fuji sells Velvia 50 in 16 mm format only for special orders (In some pleace of Fuji´s site they say that). But I really don´t know if Velvia 50 reversal MP film is manufactured using a polyerster or acetate base.

[reflex]

I am discovering a few shining rays of hope on this web-site; diamonds amongst the dim coal. I say, you, son, appear a mental giant in your reasoning, comparitive to the overwhelming deluge of fools who have nearly led me to give up on this web-site, and your post on this matter is worth quoting for its merit.

The irony of this content-free paragraph is not lost on us working class folk.

Dave: It's too bad Kodak wants a significantly sized minimum order. My suspicion is that they're thinking in terms of their wide manufacturing rolls -- they probably want you to take an entire roll. And their pricing strategy seems to be "price it high because it's custom work."

At this point, it would be worth approaching Fuji -- I'm sure Tak at Retro Enterprises in Japan could provide contact information and might even be able to hook you up with the right people.

[M'Lord]

What once appears to be gold, reveals itself, with a firm bite down, to be nothing more than pyrite. I am disappointed by your reply.



Now, to keep this on topic, I must say that this whole "fight Kodak" thing is one of the most foolish threads I have witnessed yet in my short time here.

I would also point out that Fuji Film is not up to the same standards as Kodak and that their Motion Picture stock, aside from Single 8, is made of the same stuff which Kodak's is. Indeed, they even follow Kodak's mastery in this domain by using the same processing method and chemicals, I do believe. I do believe I had read somewhere that this Super-mag fellow was attempting to get loads of negative film stock for his contraption from Kodak. This material would not be on polyester base. I say, as pleasant as the Fuji Single 8 material is, it is no match for the modern negative film stocks nor what I would be inclined to purchase were I to buy a Super-mag.

[twotoneska]

Dave, I sent my letter off. Thanks for the address.

[chachi]

Mlord, since you think we are all fools here, I suspect that would make you the KING of fools..

[supermag400_inventor]

OK! Once again....for those who don't know. It is super 8 film from Kodak. That's the whole point of buying it from them.
Second, Fuji isn't an option. They wouldn't even return my e-mails. And they don't make super 8 film at all any more. Without a perforator/slitter it would be pointless to buy any other films. That's another issue.
Third, The suggestion to "Fight" was a term used to mean, let's not give up just yet. Sometimes it takes more influence from other customers to make them change their policies. It was not to infer I dislike them or I've had a falling out with them. They just want too much for their products.
Last but not least. I can't believe some of the comments on here. Now suddenly there is praise for Pro 8, when months ago, you bashed me for "being in bed with them" as someone put it. You can't have it both ways fellas. My "falling out" with Pro 8 was do to them not being able to handle the criticism of their services, which I pointed out to them. In hopes Phil would put the issues to rest once and for all. However, he just got pissed off and shut me out. I got tired of the poor quality of his film. Most of which was scratched, fogged or out of date. How can you expect good test results with those problems facing you.

Super 8 is a dying breed. I built the supermag in hopes it would pump some life back into it's decaying carcus. Now, I don't think it would make much difference. It's doomed to fail with attitudes like there are on here.

Kodak has one goal as a company...make money! They could care less about the life of super 8. That's the bottome line. If selling sand to Arabs was their business, they'd still be asking top dollar. It makes no difference what you think the market price should be, that's what they charge. They set the market prices to begin with. So the price per foot isn't an issue, it's their unwillingness to lower their minimums. Come on, $50,000 for a first time purchase is unrealistic.

Right now, they're the only game in town for fresh factory made super 8 film, and they know it. When your on top, you can do what you want. Helping provide film for the Supermag isn't going to break them, or cause them hardship. Besides the fact they already make the film in 2400 foot rolls to start with. That's what they use to make up the cartidges. Calling it a special order is just an excuse to raise the price. Any new product that could boost their sales should be a blessing to them. Especially when they didn't spend the money to develop it.

I only suggested people contact Karen Dumont to show support for the Supermag and super 8. With the hope they might bend a bit on the price and the quantity. That's all. But if it's not worth your support or efforts to do that, then I've waisted my time.

I'm done here!

[M'Lord]

Scott Baio, I have no interest in reigning over this dominion. Please do not confuse the presence of a natural authoritative figure with one whom is a Monarch. Not all are fools, however. Just today I have found one who is not.

Let us stay on topic. Are you interested in discussing the Super-mag? What is your opinion?

[M'Lord]

I would post a reply to the Super-mag inventor's post, but every paragraph contains obvious factual errors and large gaps in reasoning.

I do not wish to come across as overly negative to him, so I will hold my tongue on this matter. I will leave correction to others.

Perhaps when one comes on up on eBay I will purchase it and give it a go.

[chachi]

My opinion is that the supermag is great and that kodak should support it.

Since your a Natural authoritative figure, why don't you contact Kodak for us??