Barry Lyndon vs Dangerous Liaisons

[tlatosmd]

Sounds like a hoax or fake to me.

It doesn't look like a hoax or a fake to me, but it's clearly not true.

What's left as a label? A 'misunderstanding'?

[Scotness]

Hi Bon - I'd look for the other dvd release - the transfer I watched was flawless - a friend leant it to me - it 's part of the Kubirck Special series or something.

I know what you mean about the lighting style - at first I thought it was some kind of really good home movie - but the more I watched it the more I got into it - and the more illimuniating it became (and I don't mean light wise!)

The only bits where they used artificial light really stood out and looked bad in my opinion. I read that in some of the interiors with white walls opposite windows they put fine black guaze over it to bring it back a bit. So it's not all natural - but pretty much so. It really changed the way I thought about those times and people living there.

I'd love to try that style of lighting on some things here - it's alot easier to do in Europe I think with the softer light and more cloud cover -- but I love the bright Australian look - and it would be great to film things where you get that broad range - as long as you could do it with little or no burn outs or unreadable dark areas.

Anyway it's given me a whole new way to think about lighting.

I also posted this question here
and the candlelight effect is quite do able now with out having to go the lengths Kubrick did in the 70's - I'm just surprised it hasn't been used more.

Scot

[Scotness]

double post

[steve hyde]

...I have to admit - I haven't followed this thread carefully - but I don't think that shot is lit exclusively by candles. My guess is that there are people holding fire torches behind the camera to generate brighter flame light.

[Actor]

Does anyone know more about these candlelight shots and what asa the film was -- also what are the fastest lenses generally availalbe now - anything like the lense he used but easier to get hold of?

• Kubrick was initially told "it can't be done" but he persisted.
• Film was ASA 100.
• For consistancy all film was pushed two stops, even the exteriors lit by sunlight.
• No fill light was used, at least not from artificial sources.
• The camera was a modified Mitchell BNC, non reflex.
• The front shutter blade was removed to make room for the lens, thus losing the variable shutter angle capability of the camera.
• The remaining shutter blade was moved closer to the film plane.
• The lens barrel had to be rotated 720 degrees to change focus from infinity to five feet.
• The rear element of the lens was within 4mm of the film plane.
• There were three lenses with focal lengths of 37mm, 50mm and 75mm, all f/0.7
• The lens had little depth of field.
• Candles were replaced between takes to get their heights right but people still claim there are continuity errors in candle height.
• The camera and all three lenses are in the possession of the Kubrick family,

[John_Pytlak]

As mentioned in another forum, modern high speed films like Kodak VISION2 500T Color Negative Film 5218 would have made this shot much easier to do today. With an f/1.4 lens, 170-degree shutter, 24fps, you only need 5 footcandles for a full exposure on EI-500 film, and even less if you push process. Multiwicked candles certainly could provide adequate exposure.

[downix]

Barry Lyndon's candlelit scenes were shot with the fastest film made then, 400ASA, pushed one stop

As JGrube said, film was 100 asa, pushed one stop. Back in those days there was no even 250 asa mp film yet.

I double checked, it was 100ASA, pushed two stops, bringing it to ASA 400. I was mixing it up with the film that Spielberg used on the same camera/lens setup for the opening shot in Schindlers List.

[alan doyle]

Kubricks ..Barry lyndon is one of the most visually beautiful films,ever made.. John Alcott,the dp was an amazingly talented man...
he started out as geofrey unsworths focus puller and polaroid shooter...
on 2001...but quickly ended up shooting 2nd unit stuff on the film..
he was a very quick learner and with teachers like kubrick and unsworth around,you can see why...i think,he took from unsworth the expansive,grand gesture style beautiful studio lighting ... and from kubrick availlable justified,point of source lighting....

Barry lyndon was shot using kodak 5254....
this was the same stock used on,the godfather, altmans..the long goodbye and polanskis,chinatown...very lovely fleshtones....
some old boy dps...say they should bring this stock back...
some people say kubrick was the real dp on his shoots...
fans will notice,that the credit kubrick dishes out on end titles on his films is lighting cameraman ,sounds more tradesman than d p artist...

but look at his films ,after the shining,not half as interesting as his earlier stuff,because alcott had had enough after the shining...

stanleys widow gave some arri cameras,and a couple of the ex nasa lens to the actor,director..vincent gallo...the lens did not fit on the cameras...i heard he was trying to sell them on ebay,last year...
but the great news is...my ex boss,joe dunton..who runs a film camera rental company in london and america...is revamping,kubricks camera and the zeiss nasa lens....possibly for rental purposes......

[Evan Kubota]

"fans will notice,that the credit kubrick dishes out on end titles on his films is lighting cameraman"

Not sure about Kubrick's motivation for using that, but many DPs on European productions are called 'lighting cameramen,' at least on Polish productions (translated by British... so maybe it's a UK thing - anyone know?)

[steve hyde]

...fascinating piece of cinema history here Scott - where did this information come from?

Steve

[Actor]

I watched Barry Lyndon the other night - ... The effect was so great I wanted to compare it to something else (with similar settings etc) so I put on Dangerous Liaisons

The film I compare to Barry Lyndon is Ridley Scott's The Duellists. Set about 50 years later than Barry Lyndon, The Duellists does not aspire to Kubrick's technical heights. Scott had a budget that was a fraction of Kubrick's and it was his directoral debut. Still, I think it was wonderfully photographed on marvelous locations, and I find Conrad's story more entertaining than Thackery's.

I have seen The Duellists only on TV and I own the DVD. I don't think it ever had a theatrical release or, if it did, it was not wide spread. Pity!

[downix]

You know all this discussion of Barry Lyndon is making me long to do my own candlelit shot setup using the Leica F1 lens w/ V2 500T.

How does candlelight look on T film, any filters needed?

[Shion]

Hi Bon - I'd look for the other dvd release - the transfer I watched was flawless - a friend leant it to me - it 's part of the Kubirck Special series or something.

Thanks for the info. If I remember, I'll include it in my next batch of rentals. There's a place near me that I just joined with a huge selection that would probably include the improved version.

-Bon

[John_Pytlak]

You know all this discussion of Barry Lyndon is making me long to do my own candlelit shot setup using the Leica F1 lens w/ V2 500T.

How does candlelight look on T film, any filters needed?

If you are shooting by candlelight, you probably want the very warm color balance they provide, so you would not want to "correct" it using filtration. Candlelight has a color temperature of about 1850 Kelvin:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/h2/temp.shtml

If you use a color negative film, the latitude will allow some additional adjustment of the "look" during the color timing/grading process.

[mattias]

just a thought but if you're using tungsten film it's already grainier in the blue sensitive layer, and if you underexpose it due to very warm lighting wouldn't it get *very* grainy? maybe it's better to use a slight cooling filter and add the warmth in post? i've shot stills in candlelight and they were impossible to bring any color back into. no blue information at all.

/matt